This is a little too much since the drums and guitar aren't doing much but it sounds like something I'll do.
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The rhythm section - locking in with drums
- Thread starter static0verdrive
- Start date
This is a little too much since the drums and guitar aren't doing much but it sounds like something I'll do.
To my ears this sounds awful sorry. The best exemple ( to me ) of separating a riff between a guitar and a bass is Californication - RHCP.
Well dah I posted it even if it wasn't that great and of course this is something I'll do. In the first video it is the Sarabande from Bach Cello Suite 6.
The groove for electric bass, I have a book with those and the backing track, I didn't create anything. Most of the stuff I played I had a music sheet of some sort, I haven't created by my own.
I kept those vid online but I must say that I haven't played bass for a year if not more. Even though I went to school and all that stuff, my desire to play music vanished a few years ago. I just still like to talk about music and bass.
If you like I could post a recent thing I did with a loop station
I have nothing musically to hide so I posted them like I said.
YouTube "flashiness" isn't that hard to do with the right Tools, just like for sound cloud, I wasn't sure it would sound that well because while recording it wasn't that loud.
I must say, your line is something that it will take me an insane amount of time because I don't play, nor listen to music groove oriented like funk and R&B etc.
Your simplyfied version is easy enough but the original is still kicking my behind, it isn't in my blood that type of thing
A short video from Chris Coleman: Locking in with the Bass Player
A bass and drum segment demonstrating how to lock with a bass player or keep it in the pocket .
Raymond McKinley (Bass) (currently with Tower of Power; and Natalie Ragins (Keys) who has performed with Mary-Mary, Kurt Carr, and Kim Burrell.)
A bass and drum segment demonstrating how to lock with a bass player or keep it in the pocket .
Raymond McKinley (Bass) (currently with Tower of Power; and Natalie Ragins (Keys) who has performed with Mary-Mary, Kurt Carr, and Kim Burrell.)
As always I think people get confused by thinking there's a formula for good playing or locking in or whatever. Playing with the bass drum will reinforce the bass drum. Playing against it won't. That's not right or wrong, it all depends on the feel you're going for. Reinforcing certain drums and accents will create different feels that you gradually learn over time through experience of doing it. A lot.
In terms of locking in (in a live situation), it all depends on the style. In swing stuff I would listen out for the foot hi hat because that's the more consistent reference point. The ride and other drums might fly all over the time in various creative ways, but the hi-hat (usually) stays consistent. In pop/rock stuff I listen to the bass drum and snare first of all because they are the main accents and then use the hi hat or ride as the secondary subdivision. Then it's a matter of relying on the time feel of myself and the drummer in terms of locking in with each other. In any ensemble there will be a communal pulse that everyone will work to in different ways, some pushing, some pulling, some right on the money. I don't see it as simply as 'locking in with the bass drum'. It's a continuous timing feedback loop that you can become hypersensitive to, to the point of going a bit nuts. Every time I do any gigs where I'm playing every day for several months at a time, I start to get really sensitive to the timing idiosyncrasies of myself and the drummer (and the other players) and I start to get super paranoid about micro timing. Then I listen back to a recording a year later and everything sounds normal, relaxed and sometimes even good! I think being hyper conscious of timing can be really good to a point but sometimes it can go a bit OTT. The same thing goes for listening to vocal pitching in a studio.
In terms of locking in (in a live situation), it all depends on the style. In swing stuff I would listen out for the foot hi hat because that's the more consistent reference point. The ride and other drums might fly all over the time in various creative ways, but the hi-hat (usually) stays consistent. In pop/rock stuff I listen to the bass drum and snare first of all because they are the main accents and then use the hi hat or ride as the secondary subdivision. Then it's a matter of relying on the time feel of myself and the drummer in terms of locking in with each other. In any ensemble there will be a communal pulse that everyone will work to in different ways, some pushing, some pulling, some right on the money. I don't see it as simply as 'locking in with the bass drum'. It's a continuous timing feedback loop that you can become hypersensitive to, to the point of going a bit nuts. Every time I do any gigs where I'm playing every day for several months at a time, I start to get really sensitive to the timing idiosyncrasies of myself and the drummer (and the other players) and I start to get super paranoid about micro timing. Then I listen back to a recording a year later and everything sounds normal, relaxed and sometimes even good! I think being hyper conscious of timing can be really good to a point but sometimes it can go a bit OTT. The same thing goes for listening to vocal pitching in a studio.
An excellent point.
Some genres require much more unity between the bass and the kick. Some less; therefore, as you said,
"it all depends on the feel you're going for. Reinforcing certain drums and accents will create different feels."
I tend to compare the song's arrangement (starting/including the rhythm section's participants) to making a rug. Sometimes, you want a hand-crafted ancient style rug, sometimes, a cheaply made rug directly from the factory is just perfect for your needs (and your wallet).
If an arranger (of a bass player) decides to PURPOSELY create a bass-line that some of our TB members (and very good bass players) would call, "Sounds like the bass is fighting the drums (or something similar to it)" - it's their HAND-CRAFTED RUG. Don't like it - don't buy it.
As you said,
"Reinforcing certain drums and accents will create different feels."
("Do you feel like we do?")
But having said about those "different feels",
once again, I would like to emphasize the following for the Pop/Rock beginner bass players
- "Before you start experimenting with all those trendy "behind the beat/slightly ahead of it, etc...
- just learn to play right on the beat and on your bass NOTES' lengths because,
it will be sound MUCH MUCH better and will allow you much much easier to adjust the bass-line with the drums because,
as you said,
it's "a communal pulse that everyone will work to in different ways, some pushing, some pulling, some right on the money."
I've already posted a video with superb Blues musicians where the drum player places the snare behind the beat but the bass player plays it "right on the beat", and it produces an anti "in-the-pocket" effect.
I've already expressed my opinion about that overly-prevailing bass players' motto, "Just follow the kick" (like a cow following the cowbell.)
The bass player and the drum player are following the RULES of the genre ONLY.
P.S. What to do if the bass player created a new bass groove/riff without any drums?
I think you touched a very interesting subject that involves those "on stage/live performance" sound issues and a lot of "psychological factors - the band internal relationship, tiredness, sleep deprivation, hangover, family issues, etc...
Here, let me break it down...
You want to "lock in" with the drums? Keep good time. The end.
You want to "lock in" with the drums? Keep good time. The end.
JimmyM,
I agree completely with your statement, but...
There is always some "D'Angelo" feel.
Here is a new song from a very talented and superb young singer/composer - Lianne La Havas - Unstoppable.
The bass starts with a clearly pronounced that "behind the beat"/"d'angelized" bass-line. It's OK even from a traditional bass player's perspective, but...
Around 2:15 - 2:22 (What...?), around 2:45 or ("Oops" - around 2:56).
(Anyway, I'm a big fan of Lianne, and I think quite a few MULTI-MILLIONAIRE similar singers with all those, "Check my Instagram pics in bikinis" are jealous.)
Here is her studio version:
Here is her Live version of the same song.
The bass player (playing with the pick) is still clearly "d'angelizing" the bass-line and those "Oops" kind of disappeared, but that strong "Behind the Beat" bass note placement still lingers.
I consider "keeping good time" to include behind-the-beat playing when it's suitable. And ahead of the beat when suitable as well.
As Mark said,
it's "a communal pulse that everyone will work to in different ways, some pushing, some pulling, some right on the money."
