The science of pulling back a speeding drummer

[project_c]

Most of us have played with drummers who regularly get over excited and speed up, and I often hear people saying stuff like “it’s the bassist’s job to keep time” and “if the drummer has bad timing / keeps speeding up, it’s the bassist’s job to pull them back”. And I agree with both of those statements in theory, but nobody actually explains how to do that, when in practice, no matter what you do, the drummer is not really listening, or they’re just playing too loud, so the rest of the band end up speeding up with the drums rather than focusing on the bass, and trying to keep time as a bassist becomes a pointless task, so you just end up speeding up with everyone else.

The difference tonight was that I decided to try a more stupid approach, and I gradually turned up my amp crazy loud until the drums were barely audible, and as if by magic, the drummer suddenly couldn’t speed ahead, and despite numerous attempts to rush, he couldn’t do it. So I basically bullied him into staying in time.

So that’s my technique, brute force. Not very clever but it worked. It’s far from ideal though so I’m curious if anyone has any better techniques.

 

[jallenbass]

“if the drummer has bad timing / keeps speeding up, it’s the bassist’s job to pull them back”

If anyone is speeding up, they're not listening. You made it impossible for them not to listen. Good job!

 

[KenD]

If anyone is speeding up, they're not listening. You made it impossible for them not to listen. Good job!

The drummer should NOT be listening to others to get the tempo. He/she is supposed to set the tempo for the others.

 

[RandomKaren]

The drummer should NOT be listening to others to get the tempo. He/she is supposed to set the tempo for the others.

Supposed to is one thing, capable of doing so is another Some people have good sense of tempo, others just don't.

 

[KenD]

Supposed to is one thing, capable of doing so is another Some people have good sense of tempo, others just don't.

Agreed. And those who don't have it shouldn't be drummers. Let them play air guitar

 

[jallenbass]

The drummer should NOT be listening to others to get the tempo. He/she is supposed to set the tempo for the others.

IMHO, everyone should listen to each other to set the tempo. Otherwise, it's a band of followers.

 

[bwildt]

I find that most players don't pay attention to the bass, making it hard to "lead" a band with a bass around your neck. Tempo, chords. It doesn't matter.

But sometimes it happens. A number of years ago, I played in a female-fronted country band. My brother-in-law (a good drummer) said to me during one of the breaks, "You are the timekeeper/driver of your band". I took that as a compliment. Most of the music was simple and danceable, going from trad country to pop country. My bass lines were mostly simple, but not just root/five stuff. I made sure the dancers knew where the beat was.

I also get compliments from the horn players in the 18 piece stage band I play in. They rely on me for the pulse.

 

[JRA]

but nobody actually explains how to do that

i like playing with musicians: you can say, "you're rushing (or dragging)," and it means something to them without any offense....it helps to produce awareness and conscientiousness.

Some people have good sense of tempo, others just don't.

and if you have no predilection toward that "good sense," why would you pretend to be a drummer? edit: rhetorical

per the OP: it's ok to tell a musician what they need to know/do to become a better team player. if you know what you're talking about in the first place, you have an obligation.


per the discussion, a priori --- things i've noticed over the years on TB:
- many folks don't want to be honest and direct when dealing with musical issues while acting out the 'band game'.
- many folks don't want to be honest and direct when dealing with interpersonal and/or personnel issues while acting out the 'band game'.

how serious are you about anything (in life!) if you can't be honest and direct?

asking for a friend.

 

[red_rhino]

If your drummer cannot keep tempo, you have the wrong drummer. Working to establish good tempo in a rhythm section is one thing, but managing a chronic condition is an indication of bigger problems, IMO.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Most of us have played with drummers who regularly get over excited and speed up, and I often hear people saying stuff like “it’s the bassist’s job to keep time” and “if the drummer has bad timing / keeps speeding up, it’s the bassist’s job to pull them back”. And I agree with both of those statements in theory, but nobody actually explains how to do that, when in practice, no matter what you do, the drummer is not really listening, or they’re just playing too loud, so the rest of the band end up speeding up with the drums rather than focusing on the bass, and trying to keep time as a bassist becomes a pointless task, so you just end up speeding up with everyone else.

The difference tonight was that I decided to try a more stupid approach, and I gradually turned up my amp crazy loud until the drums were barely audible, and as if by magic, the drummer suddenly couldn’t speed ahead, and despite numerous attempts to rush, he couldn’t do it. So I basically bullied him into staying in time.

So that’s my technique, brute force. Not very clever but it worked. It’s far from ideal though so I’m curious if anyone has any better techniques.

Not to be cliche, but fire the drummer. Drummers that play so loud they can’t hear what is going on with the rest of the band are not worth dealing with.

JMO

 

[gln1955]

The difference tonight was that I decided to try a more stupid approach, and I gradually turned up my amp crazy loud until the drums were barely audible, and as if by magic, the drummer suddenly couldn’t speed ahead, and despite numerous attempts to rush, he couldn’t do it. So I basically bullied him into staying in time.

So that’s my technique, brute force. Not very clever but it worked. It’s far from ideal though so I’m curious if anyone has any better techniques.

So, what will you do on a gig? You can't drown out everyone else.

 

[Silky Johnson]

Um, fire them and get a drummer that can keep time

 

[Wasnex]

There is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

Sometimes the drummer is drawn to a faster tempo and there is nothing you can do. If you try to pull back, they may simply push ahead more.

Sometimes the trick is to play so far ahead that the drummer pulls you back.

In my experience how well and what part of your sound the drummer hears is relevant. If they hear only your lows, they will usually perceive you as being behind and/or dragging. This can cause them to push ahead and speed up. Sometimes if you turn up your treble or aim your cab so they hear more highs, the feel will relax. However, I played with one drummer who seemed to focus on the bloom of my notes and hated to hear the mids and highs.

Sometimes when the pocket seems really relaxed, it's because the drummer can't hear me at all. As soon as they ask for more bass, time goes out the window .

 

[Geepers]

I’m a drummer (as well as a bass player). Drummers: record your band rehearsals and listen back to them. You will hear where you’re rushing or dragging much easier than you can in the heat of battle. And then WORK at it. Seriously, you have to want to get better, not just rock up and have fun. Could say a lot more here about what’s going on with drummers and speeding up but that’s probably for another forum .

 

[bikeplate]

I prefer to gig with like minded people Including ones who can play in time. Thats what I suggest

 

[Altitude]

During a performance: If a drummer rushes and you hear it, you have no choice but to follow. You can try to anchor the tempo and draw the drummer back to you, but in my experience they rarely hear it and understand what’s happening. If they don’t hear it, and you don’t follow their tempo, the tune trainwrecks because the bass player and drummer fighting tempo sounds worse than both of them rushing together.

So, do what you need to do and hit it hard at the next rehearsal.

It can be really interesting to run a click track. Many drummers hold tempo pretty well until they play a fill and then they speed off into the night.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

No sense of tempo? Shouldn’t be sitting in the drummer’s throne.

 

[dreamadream99]

I spent most of my young life trying to reign in rushing drummers by forcibly playing slower. It never works. The drummers hear you playing slow and forcibly speed up. The exact opposite of what you want. The next part sounds very counterintuitive, but stay with me here. It really does work, and you only have to do it once.

Play faster. I’m serious. If you rush a rushing drummer, everything speeds up so fast, that the drummer notices it’s going too fast, and will start to try to slow down. Which is exactly what you want.

 

[sethlow3]

“Who is responsible for keeping time in the band?
Everyone…”
—-Victor Wooten

 

[GreyBeard]

A drummer with bad time is failing at the drummers most basic function. You'd be better off with a programmable drum machine.