The science of pulling back a speeding drummer

[twinjet]

Most of us have played with drummers who regularly get over excited and speed up, and I often hear people saying stuff like “it’s the bassist’s job to keep time” and “if the drummer has bad timing / keeps speeding up, it’s the bassist’s job to pull them back”. And I agree with both of those statements in theory, but nobody actually explains how to do that, when in practice, no matter what you do, the drummer is not really listening, or they’re just playing too loud, so the rest of the band end up speeding up with the drums rather than focusing on the bass, and trying to keep time as a bassist becomes a pointless task, so you just end up speeding up with everyone else.

The difference tonight was that I decided to try a more stupid approach, and I gradually turned up my amp crazy loud until the drums were barely audible, and as if by magic, the drummer suddenly couldn’t speed ahead, and despite numerous attempts to rush, he couldn’t do it. So I basically bullied him into staying in time.

So that’s my technique, brute force. Not very clever but it worked. It’s far from ideal though so I’m curious if anyone has any better techniques.

Hey man, it isn't dumb if it works!

 

[SJan3]

I stop playing for a measure or two and give the "glare". He figures out it's him.

 

[Kevin Hailey]

The ability to keep a steady beat is a simple human skill. We walk and speak in time. Everybody does it. I think I’ve only ever met a couple of people with legitimately “bad time”
Failure to keep good time in a band is usually because of not listening or being otherwise mentally not fully present for the music.

 

[MindinAction]

The drummer should be the atomic clock.

 

[coyote1]

The drummer should NOT be listening to others to get the tempo. He/she is supposed to set the tempo for the others.

Yes. And no. All members of the ensemble need to co-create the time. If any one member - matters not which one - is speeding, the whole feel is demolished. A drummer cannot keep the time for another member who is not playing the time. I’ve experienced and witnessed this more often than I care to count.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Years ago I played with a young drummer who was like a human metronome at rehearsal. Inevitably he would speed up when we played live. Finally I told him I was going to stop playing when he did. And I followed through. After that he was much better.

 

[31HZ]

I open up the LiveBPM app and place my phone where everyone in the band can see it. It becomes pointedly obvious when the tempo fluctuates.

Live BPM

 

[Topkat13]

Hey (drummer’s name) can you play slower please? I know it sounds crazy.

 

[Jefenator]

My old drum mentor used to say that anyone can "drive" a band. Trumpet, vocal, keys – whoever possesses the most rhythmic authority. I concur.
That doesn't necessarily mean I get to slack off & let the saxophonist deal with it. (Unless he/she happens to have a really dope sense of rhythm.)
It means there's a really interactive power dynamic. In a lot of groups, the "driving" seems to fall on me and I strive to be worthy of that great responsibility.
But it also means acknowledging & deferring when someone else has the greater command.
I think of it as a conversation – preferably a musical one. (I try to avoid verbalizing unless it's really necessary.)
If your drummer can hear and respond to someone else laying it down, that's a good sign. (Inability to listen & respond is the true kiss of death in a bandmate IME.)
It could be as simple as positioning your amp so the drummer really hears it.
One of the drummers I work with the most is very capable & powerful, but he can be a pretty bad rusher when he gets bored. But we've developed a rapport over the years. He does listen, and he doesn't like it when he can't hear me.
Come to think of it, the guitarist we work with lays it down like crazy; so maybe it's not my doing at all.
Good luck with your project.

 

[Geepers]

Many drummers hold tempo pretty well until they play a fill and then they speed off into the night.

Yep. Because they’re (subconsciously) anxious about completing the fill in the space allotted. Why? Because the fill is slightly beyond their ability at that time. Why? Because they haven’t done the work on the fill for it to be embedded into their muscle memory. - ie they’re still having to think about it during execution. The answer is to use simpler fills that you are completely comfortable with. Simplicity done really well always trumps complexity done quite well.

 

[elgranluis]

Band 101: follow the singer. If anything happens , follow the drummer. Don’t argue with this logic.

 

[Johnny Fingers]

The drummer at least knows two words: Speed King.

 

[lethargytartare]

I often hear people saying stuff like “it’s the bassist’s job to keep time” and “if the drummer has bad timing / keeps speeding up, it’s the bassist’s job to pull them back”.

Honestly, I've never heard that...ever. I've also never had a drummer explicitly agree to improve. If I had to hold the tempo for the drummer, it would basically eliminate any chance of syncopation. If it's bad, give the drummer a blinking metronome to help them improve.

 

[CryingBass]

Rusian. Dragon. Right?

 

[gregbackstrom]

Rusian. Dragon. Right?

Or maybe Russian Dragon?

 

[sokolasty]

I read the whole thread and I didn't see the word "metronome"
All the drummers I play with use it

 

[project_c]

During a performance: If a drummer rushes and you hear it, you have no choice but to follow. You can try to anchor the tempo and draw the drummer back to you, but in my experience they rarely hear it and understand what’s happening. If they don’t hear it, and you don’t follow their tempo, the tune trainwrecks because the bass player and drummer fighting tempo sounds worse than both of them rushing together.

So, do what you need to do and hit it hard at the next rehearsal.

It can be really interesting to run a click track. Many drummers hold tempo pretty well until they play a fill and then they speed off into the night.

Yeah, click tracks have been discussed many times, the rest of the band also keep suggesting it. This particular drummer is ‘not a fan’ of click tracks, which does ring alarm bells, but there isn’t much I can do about it apart from encourage him to practice using one. You’re right about fills, the speeding up normally happens around the end of 8 bar sections. The tempo doesn’t completely collapse, it just goes up a notch every 8 bars or so.

I don’t have the luxury of firing the drummer for a variety of reasons, and he’s a very nice guy so I don’t feel great about bad-mouthing him, but maybe the issue is more about how people address issues with their playing. Some people take note of their shortcomings during practice and go away and work on any issues that come up, and others are just happy to be at the level they’re at, or maybe they’re too busy with other aspects of their lives so they focus on the ‘fun’ stuff, learning new songs or working on solos rather than going back to basics and sitting with a click track at 60 bpm. I think generally bass players tend to be much more used to that granular level of practice than other musicians, most bassists I speak to work on timing and feel daily, while other musicians tend to prioritise improvisation / soloing / melodic stuff and timing and feel can be an afterthought.

 

[Wyrdlow]

A drummer with bad time is failing at the drummers most basic function. You'd be better off with a programmable drum machine.

At least that way you'd only have to punch the instructions in once!

 

[micguy]

The drummer should NOT be listening to others to get the tempo. He/she is supposed to set the tempo for the others.

The drummer absolutely needs to listen to others. It's everyone's job to play in time. The drummer included, of course, but a drummer that doesn't listen to what I play and when I play it? Thats not a good drummer.

 

[smo]

Most of us have played with drummers who regularly get over excited and speed up, and I often hear people saying stuff like “it’s the bassist’s job to keep time” and “if the drummer has bad timing / keeps speeding up, it’s the bassist’s job to pull them back”.

Hard to do when the guitarists are usually easier to hear in a dense mix.
Yeah stupid volume will help, but getting the drummer to practice, and/or even perform with a click, might help too.

I also don't buy you should just blame the rhythm section when a band races. It's a pull-&-push type thing. Vibes.
I'm a firm believer that a band does not need to maintain the same tempo for the whole song. That said, racing sucks.