The Search For a Multi Begins...

[Turtle71]

...I'm happy to step down a notch or two and enjoy the simplicity and limitations of the Zoom products. They just aren't terribly sophisticated compared to products that live in the price range(s) above $500, or in many respects, even the PodGo. Zoom's current ideal pedal owner has no real interest in MIDI, multiple path routing, or deep-diving. It is what it is....nothing wrong with that IMO.

Yeah, I'm kinda with you there, I don't need an ultra tweakable setup, I just want something functional & reliable, with a good selection of FX and ideally some amp/cabs sims so I could go totally amp free for some gigs (cover band uses an IEM system)...The B6 does fit that bill pretty well (not sure about reliable or durable...time would tell).

If the B6 could provide good dirt & filters, I could sell my SA Aftershock & Spectrum, then I would no longer be needing Midi capability.

What I'll likely end up doing is trying the HX Stomp AND the B6...See which suits me better, they both have pros/cons, neither checks all the boxes. My guitar player has a spare HX Stomp he's not using, he said I could try it out.

Yeah, I'd LOVE something ultra nice like the Helix LT, but I'm not sure I'd actually use it up to it's potential, it does basically check all my boxes (and then some), but those checks come with a premium price, maybe once the gigs start coming back around I'd be able to justify it, until then...

 

[tb-player]

+1 for HX Stomp.

Get a TRS cable and a Normally Open Momentary Double Switch pedal and you'll have access to additional switchable blocks. Then follow Ian Allison on YouTube. He's constantly posting about his HX Stomp settings. Really fun pedal and nowhere near the overkill you get from the Helix at almost 3x the price. I've had both and I went back to the HX Stomp.

Here's mine in a guitar setup. I've since swapped the DI for a stereo DI. That little pedalboard can shake the house (and the 'Stormtrooper White' with the clear Mooer caps is cool looking ).

 

[jimfist]

Oooooh. Source Audio is a tough act to follow for any multi-fx. It's very difficult to predict exactly what is considered acceptable when replacing existing pedals with multi-fx models. It's really hit-or-miss.

I think you may already realize that multi-fx tend to be a compromise at some level, even with the high-end stuff, with the trade-off being reduced size/weight/clutter, and programmability. The subjective question is always: where is the line where "good enough" will work?

 

[Altitude]

The biggest drawback was these things aren't easy to tweak on the fly like a pedalboard is. To me, they're more geared towards live performance (where they're quite impressive) rather than being a tool for ongoing sonic exploration. You kinda work up or load something and save it, and that's it. Not something a knob twiddler would like.

That's indeed my experience. I have a Zoom B3n that I take to gigs. I initially set up the 5 or 6 notable tones I wanted out of it (a clean, a dirty, something with an autowah, an octave thing, couple synths) and then left it alone long enough that the next time I wanted to create a new patch I had to re-learn how.

But it's a strength and a weakness. The effect setups are probably a little rigid to be fiddling with on the fly, true. But on the flipside you can create as many as you need and access them easily. As opposed to, say, the EXH Bass Micro Synth I used a long time ago - so many tiny sliders on that thing there was no way I could change settings between tunes on a gig. If I'd had two really different synth patch needs, I might have had to use two of them!

 

[Turtle71]

Oooooh. Source Audio is a tough act to follow for any multi-fx. It's very difficult to predict exactly what is considered acceptable when replacing existing pedals with multi-fx models. It's really hit-or-miss.

Yeah, the Spectrum is pretty sweet, and WAY more filters than I need, and I do truly love the Aftershock, but honestly I only ever really use a couple different drive options, one is a light OD, the other is a Fuzz, for over the top distortion I will always go back to my Blower Box, even on this new board I'm building around the Multi.

 

[40Hz]

The effect setups are probably a little rigid to be fiddling with on the fly, true. But on the flipside you can create as many as you need and access them easily.

Exactly. Which is why I feel they're really more suited to live performance situations than they are to exploring sounds. I'm sure the studio cats enjoy being able to cart along several dozen meticulously tuned and tweaked patches they can punch up on a moment's notice for any situation. Not a pond I swim in. But I know a few who do. And they love their Kempers and Helixes.

 

[drumvsbass]

I love my HX stomp. Can see the argument for the stomp XL. Lot's of power for a bassist in these little boxes.

 

[mikewalker]

I've had a bunch of ZOOM units (all nice) - but if I am on a budget I still prefer my Tonelab (old, obsolete, but freakin useful tool for tiny $$)
I've had three of these, all good: Gear | Reverb

 

[Bill Murray]

For budget to feature ratio you can't beat the stomp.

The user interface is very approachable, tons of online recourses, it's compact, has the DI out. Great for DAWS, You can track with it and capture both the DI signal and effects chain simultaneously.


I does take serious time to dial in though. There are near unlimited options on this thing and no "correct" way to use the sounds or chains. I really only use 2-3 effects for bass so it's perfect for me, the XL offers more at once but you pay for it.

 

[Portamenti]

Helix has more options for bass, but I'm loving the Headrush MX5. I'm not playing anything heavy… or too modulated. There's a B7k model and the SVT sounds decent with the stock IRs for it. Going to pick up some spendy ones to compare soon.

You're more limited for compression, and there's not much for synth. But cool
Filters and para/graphic eqs. Mods and verbs are cool. Has some midi implémentions, and it's got stereo balanced trs outs.

the only things it's not hitting from your post is the xlr jacks and the synth. And no PC app… gotta program via the touch screen

 

[Benj-jammin]

Zoom B3 or B3n as well as older units like the Boss ME50b or Korg AX3000B offer a lot of knobs and instant access to most parameters.

If I'm not mistaken, Stu Hamm still uses a B3n, and as a matter of fact, I think he used a B3 for a long time. I still have a B3 in my arsenal - great "vintage" pedal.

 

[FatherTrucker]

Yeah, I think if a go Stomp, it'll be the XL.

If the XL had a XLR out, and a control out, it would already be on the way to me, I know I could use an adaptor for the XLR, I'd just prefer to have the jack on the actual unit.

I put a small Radial DI on my board and run the 1/4" out from the Stomp to that. (Gives me an XLR out as well as a ground lift)

 

[Iristone]

May I also suggest Hotone Ampero II. It's not the copyright-infringing Mooer, and it's got stereo input for (presumably) Ric-O-Sound usage. The number of bass amp models might not be the greatest, but some guitar models (Hiwatt for example) might be able to be pushed into use.

 

[G On Bass]

I've had good luck with Zoom multi's in the past and would go B6. I have a B3 in my closet that I can't use as the editing software doesn't run with any current computers I have... Like the OP, I set, forget and then switch between patches. I could never spend 1000 or more on any pedal, and even the B6 would be at the extreme high end of what I would even consider, so that all factors in to my decision as well. I do like the dual input thing on the B6 and that fact that it is bass-specific, and there are not dozens of guitar effects cluttering up the menus.

 

[Jazz Ad]

I still have a B3 in my arsenal - great "vintage" pedal.

Oh come on. It got out barely 10 year old. There's nothing vintage about a Zoom B3.

 

[Turtle71]

OK, so I've had some time with the Zoom B6 and the Line 6 HX Stomp (and a few years with my Boss MS-3). I've got some initial thoughts, and I've settled on which is going to be on my gigging board, and which will be relegated to home practicing... but first some observations for those that were interested...

These are just my opinions and/or observations (some may be unpopular), they are by no means clinical or professional (or even accurate? ), the standard disclaimers apply YMMV, IMHO etc...


Boss Strengths:
-Control Out option for amp channel switching (REALLY like this ability)
-3 FX loops makes it easy to build a board around, the most loops of the group, and in my case they're needed.
-CURNUM function is incredible, if you know, you know.
-Typical durable Boss pedal chassis
-Midi Out (more on this later)

Boss Weaknesses:
-Terrible Display (Tiny, but usable), it's only one of the 3 without color display.
-No parallel routing...Not a deal breaker for me, but I see the advantages.
-Clunky dated PC software...But simple & usable
-Can't bypass the unit, you have to build an FX free patch...Giant PITA, but I've learned to work around it.
-No amp/cab sims, Can't load any IR's
-Luke warm modulation (some great, some meh), subpar drive/dist tones.
-No midi in (not an issue...unless you need it, I didn't)
-Not a fan of the tuner, it's accurate, just not my thing.
-Can't move the loop blocks independently, (you can on the ES-5 & ES-8), I'm surprised Boss didn't offer this on the MS-3.
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HX Stomp Strengths:
-The Helix family has the most robust FX options of the 3, but obviously not all are for bass, but many of them sound just fine on bass.
-PC software was good, it allowed for deep diving, and it was reasonably easy to use...for me, I'm not the most tech savvy...I did find that this software certainly could cause options paralysis LOL.
-Smallest footprint of the 3, not an issue for me, but if you've got a packed board, this may be your ticket to a multi FX.
-Solid pedal build, on par with the Boss offerings.
-Can load your own IR's (I didn't try this)
-Midi in & out.
-Line 6 seems to be pretty good about updates?
-Parallel routing, the only one here that can.

HX Stomp Weaknesses:
-Not a fan of the plugs/jacks on the side, but with a pedal this small it is what it is.
-Not a fan of tuner here either, seems the least accurate of the 3. YMMV
-I'm not a fan of editing FX on the pedal itself...It's much better on the PC IMHO.
-Only 3 switches (but expandable)...This kinda killed it for me, I don't want another pedal, just so I can have more buttons on this pedal...
-If I use the EXP 1/2 jack to expand the footswitches...then I can't use an expression pedal, maybe there's a work around, but I didn't find it.
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Zoom B6 Strengths:
-Far and away the easiest to edit/build patches on the unit.
-Though simple, the Zoom had my favorite PC editor.
-Can add your own IR's (I haven't done this yet)
-Records directly into the DAW, comes bundled with Cubase LE, Though recording the standard way through my Presonus interface into Studio One is just fine too, I heard no difference in quality either way.
-Some may say it's gimmicky, but I like the drum machine feature.
-Great looper that's expandable with an SD card (adds more record time).
-Easiest of the 3 to bypass everything...literally push a button, no "programming" needed.
-The only unit here with a touchscreen, but it isn't perfect, it's sometimes a little sluggish.
-The only unit here with a XLR out...Yes, I'm aware the HXS has a "balanced out".
-The 4 DI Sims sounds great.
-The only unit here with dual inputs (if that's a thing you need).
-The tuner here was the best of the 3 hands down, fast & accurate.

Zoom B6 Weaknesses:
-It's friggen HUGE!!!!
-The only unit here without any Midi capability, pretty egregious oversight IMHO...Really Zoom? I mean the Boss has it (and a fair bit more) for less $$.
-No parallel routing option.
-Though it has 6 available slots for FX in each patch, they can use up the available DSP pretty quickly I'm told, it could make it kinda tough to design complex patches, especially if you use an amp/cab sim...100% transparency, I have yet to build a patch that maxes the available DSP.
-Plastic housing, I find it quite durable, but others may be put off by it...Haven't gigged it, so long term durability is TBD.
-Zoom isn't really well known for supporting their bass products with updates etc...Maybe this will change?
-Kind of clunky to navigate banks/patches on the unit itself, something I can live with if I plan accordingly.
-----------------------------------------

I ultimately chose (continued using) the MS-3 for my main gigging board, and the B6 for my backup board/practice rig.

I chose the MS-3 for gigging almost exclusively because of the midi option (I needed to be able to control my Aftershock & C4), but I also REALLY like the control out...I use it for amp channel switching, using the CURNUM feature I can literally add my amps drive to any patch I want...I actually preferred the modulation in either of the other 2 units, but I use so little modulation (basically just chorus, a Slow Gear patch and 1 autowah patch) it didn't really factor into my needs list....though at first I thought it would.

The B6 is almost perfect, the built in DI options & XLR out make it a snap to send a signal to FOH, I added an outboard compressor, to free up one spot so I could do more with building each patch...when you're only working with 6 available slots (DSP dependent), not having to use one of the onboard comps can be handy.

TBH there really isn't a bad choice here, all 3 of these units really are great in their own ways, and what suited my needs/wants may be totally unnecessary for you...

 

[amper]

I went with the Boss GT-1000Core. Its capabilities are an order of magnitude beyond the Line6 Helix Stomp. The HX Stomp XL sells for the same price as the Core, but the Stomp offers a maximum of 8 blocks versus the Core's 24 blocks. There's really no contest. You can save $100 by going with the Stomp instead of the Stomp XL, but you still have the same engine inside.

The only difference between the GT-1000, which competes with the full Line 6 Helix, and the GT-1000Core is the lack of additional footswitches and Bluetooth. The difference between the Helix and the HX Stomp is huge. The HX Stomp has only about 1/4 of the functions of the Helix.

The GT-1000Core was an easy choice for me, since I was using all Boss digital pedals, to begin with, and the algorithms in the Core are the same ones as in the pedals I already own. I don't plan on using the Core by itself, but I could, if I wanted to. It has everything in it I would need for just about any gig on bass, except XLR outputs. But, I travel with my Countryman Type 85 DI, anyway, no matter what, so that's not that much of an issue.

Still, I use a DSM & Humboldt Electronics Simplifier and Simplifier Bass Station for my primary direct-to-PA option, in conjunction with the Core.

The only real downside to the Core is that it only has three buttons on tp, but for bass, that's not an issue for me, since I only actually need three footswitches for my setup: reverb, drive, and boost. All other effects are always on (compression, acoustic resonance enhancer, amp sim if I want to use that), and you get to the tuner on the Core by pressing two at once, although I still prefer an external tuner.

If I really need to, I'll add a Boss FS-7 dual footswitch for more control. Both together will fit in a Boss BCB-30X pedalboard box.

 

[Turtle71]

I went with the Boss GT-1000Core.

The GT-1000core is a serious piece of gear, and has TONS of potential, I did consider it, but it was at the top of my budget, and had a couple things there were an issue for me.

1. The TRRS Midi out...I don't think that would work for my Source Audio hub, it takes the standard Midi cable, and for that board I need Midi control of my C4 & Aftershock. There of course could be adaptors that maybe make this work, but that's not really an area of expertise for me.

2. It didn't appear to have a Control Out, and I really like to be able to control my amps drive channel within my Multi if possible.

Oddly enough, both of those things are included on the new GX-100, and obviously the MS-3, both at a lower cost...But of course neither of those multi effects units are as powerful as the GT1000core in other areas so it's a trade off I suppose.

Also, for those 2 reasons, the B6 will probably never be my main gigging board, will it see gigs here and there? Sure, but the MS-3 will continue to do the heavy lifting until something better comes along...

Like a GX-100 w/an XLR out...I've said it in another thread already but...It always confuses me why manufactures design a "all in one" solution with amp/cab sims etc..., so you can run "ampless", but then not include the one thing you need to send a quality signal to FOH (or the studio console)...a XLR out, or at the very least. a balanced 1/4"... Yeah it's available on the flagship models, but the GX-100 for example, does offer amp/cab sims etc..., but no way to send a quality signal to FOH, If I have to carry a DI anyway, I might as well just build a board around the individual effects pedals I like, and build the DI into it, much like I did with my MS-3 board.

 

[Johno Dunn]

The GT-1000core is a serious piece of gear, and has TONS of potential, I did consider it, but it was at the top of my budget, and had a couple things there were an issue for me.

1. The TRRS Midi out...I don't think that would work for my Source Audio hub, it takes the standard Midi cable, and for that board I need Midi control of my C4 & Aftershock. There of course could be adaptors that maybe make this work, but that's not really an area of expertise for me.

2. It didn't appear to have a Control Out, and I really like to be able to control my amps drive channel within my Multi if possible.

Oddly enough, both of those things are included on the new GX-100, and obviously the MS-3, both at a lower cost...But of course neither of those multi effects units are as powerful as the GT1000core in other areas so it's a trade off I suppose.

Also, for those 2 reasons, the B6 will probably never be my main gigging board, will it see gigs here and there? Sure, but the MS-3 will continue to do the heavy lifting until something better comes along...

Like a GX-100 w/an XLR out...I've said it in another thread already but...It always confuses me why manufactures design a "all in one" solution with amp/cab sims etc..., so you can run "ampless", but then not include the one thing you need to send a quality signal to FOH (or the studio console)...a XLR out, or at the very least. a balanced 1/4"... Yeah it's available on the flagship models, but the GX-100 for example, does offer amp/cab sims etc..., but no way to send a quality signal to FOH, If I have to carry a DI anyway, I might as well just build a board around the individual effects pedals I like, and build the DI into it, much like I did with my MS-3 board.

The Core does allow you to switch channels on an amp, and Boss makes a midi 5 pin to TRS cable that should work with the Hub. It really is a fine multi. If I hadn't gotten one in a trade, I never would have tried one, but I'm sure glad I did.

 

[Turtle71]

The Core does allow you to switch channels on an amp

Yeah, upon further research you can apparently use "CTL 4,5 EXP2" to do it.

...and Boss makes a midi 5 pin to TRS cable that should work with the Hub.

Or they could just put a damn Midi plug there c'mon Boss/Roland ...I mean Line 6 managed to squeeze a Midi In AND a Midi Out/Thru on the side of the HX Stomp so...

I know the GT-1000core is really a nice piece of gear, it's just got some stuff that's not for me, needing an adaptor to use the Midi is just one, a distinct shortage of footswitches (for me) is another, and yeah, I could add an auxiliary footswitch, but that's just another thing on top of the $750 that I'd have to buy to make this work for me...Now, you make me a 4 button GT-1000core, with 3 FX loops, and an actual Midi plug, for the same money I'm IN.

If my choice was exclusively between the GT-1000core and a HX Stomp, I'd probably go GT-1000core...But when I can get a multi that works better for me (Boss MS-3) for about $325 less??? Choice was certainly clear...YMMV