The new hatchbacks from Honda, Toyota, VW, ect. Would also be a good option for bass, gear, and additional passenger.
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Double Bass The Ultimate Challenge
- Thread starter ThumpPlunkJunk
- Start date
LOL, my kids won't be getting cars when they turn 16. My parental instinct is telling me that a beetle is too dangerous.
Reliable? The Beetle was never a reliable car, and the 70's were a notorious time for the entire auto industry. If you live in a hard winter state, any car from that era will be a pile of rust.
I've got a Scion XA, and am quite happy with it for transporting my bass. They've changed the body style somewhat, so it's worth checking to make sure your bass will fit in the actual vehicle you're looking at.
You can fit a bass in practically any small 4-door sedan by threading it in the rear drivers side door into the passenger seat. I've done that with an old Mazda 626, and even a Saturn wagon when loading the bass in the back meant taking out the meticulously installed baby seats. Of course hatchbacks are easier.
Reliable? The Beetle was never a reliable car, and the 70's were a notorious time for the entire auto industry. If you live in a hard winter state, any car from that era will be a pile of rust.
I've got a Scion XA, and am quite happy with it for transporting my bass. They've changed the body style somewhat, so it's worth checking to make sure your bass will fit in the actual vehicle you're looking at.
You can fit a bass in practically any small 4-door sedan by threading it in the rear drivers side door into the passenger seat. I've done that with an old Mazda 626, and even a Saturn wagon when loading the bass in the back meant taking out the meticulously installed baby seats. Of course hatchbacks are easier.
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My mother's thoughts are mostly the same as yours.
I would agree with both of you, but most things I've heard about the Bug are that they actually absorb blows well, due to the fact that they're got that arched shape. That, and they're used as dune buggies--how fragile can they be?
Aside from that, the Bug will be cheaper than a newer car and if it comes down to it, I could probably get a roll cage put in and still come out cheaper than getting some jumbo Escalade or something like that.
I'm sure testimonies are varied about any car, but I haven't heard anything glaringly bad about the Beetle's dependability. It's a classic car, now, so you can expect more maintenance than a new car, but most things I've read about them say what maintenance they do need is easy and relatively cheap compared to other cars. V-Dub owners, from what I've seen, mostly say that the Beetle is a good car for somebody with knowledge about how cars work as well as basic car maintenance. For somebody who hops in the car and expects it to never break down or never have any problems and only fixes it when it does, it's probably not the best buy.
On top of that, it all depends on the condition I buy the car in. There are good old Beetles and there are bad old Beetles and I don't intend on buying the latter.
I really would like a Scion, but I haven't found any for less than around $6,900. My dad refuses to pay more than $5,000, and until I get a job and work for a few months, it's not a tangible buy just yet. Hopefully, though.
I've heard nothing but good things about Scions, and I do think they look pretty cool and I've found a few with MP3-compatible sound systems. That means Primus 24/7!
I'm just rehearsing my arguments for when my kids turn 16. The statistics on teenagers and driving are not encouraging.
We're talking about things like a head-on collision or smacking a deer in the middle of the night. The issue is that in a Bug, you are the crumple zone, and a roll cage probably wouldn't make it any safer. Modern cars, even small ones, are designed to absorb impact, and come with things like air bags and anti-lock brakes.
The Beetle wasn't any less dependable than other cars of the same era. But the reliability of cars has increased dramatically. In the Midwest, when I was a kid, getting 100k miles out of a car was practically unheard of. It's true that old VW's are a good car for working on yourself. I helped a friend remove and replace an engine in an afternoon.
For sure. Their saving grace, back then, was that they were cheap to buy and cheap-and-easy to work on (which you would, often). The 20-25 mpg they got was great in the oil embargo days but that's mini-van and large luxury sedan mileage now.
As a hobby they're fine but as a real, regular car it's hard to see the appeal. Modern cars are safer, cheaper on gas, break down a lot less, have actual power, handling and brakes. That and the heaters work.
Aw, come on. The heaters work on a Beetle if there are no rust holes in the body, and you're patient.
Jake deVilliers
Commercial User
- May 24, 2006
- 6,349
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- Owner of The Bass Spa, String Repairman at Long & McQuade Vancouver
Why a '63, Jason? Here's a restored one now - I wouldn't recommend it for Pennsylvania winters but...
TheSamba.com :: VW Classifieds - 1963 VW Bug restored
When I married my sweet wife in 1981 (!), she was driving a 1973 VW Superbeetle that had been her brother's. Bright yellow, low mileage, and in mint condition, but none of that mattered. That monstrosity was uncomfortable, unreliable, and easily the most dangerous vehicle I've ever had the misfortune to drive. No AC, the heater didn't work even when new; so noisy you had to shout to hear each other; prone to electrical fires (fuel lines cross right next to the leaky battery); and eye-yi-yi, what spooky, unpredictable handling! No airbags, unusable shoulder harnesses, and tinfoil-thick, unreinforced door panels that sit mere inches from your body -- can you say "death trap," boys and girls? We sold that damn thing a few days after it nearly killed my wife when it did a full 360 spin out on a freeway onramp in the rain, and were delighted to see it's tail lights receed in the distance.
For $6k, you have a lot of decent, relatively recent options to choose from. I've owned a lot of cars, including some classics, and take it from me, you really do not want that VW.
For $6k, you have a lot of decent, relatively recent options to choose from. I've owned a lot of cars, including some classics, and take it from me, you really do not want that VW.
Sorry but I know VW Beetles inside out and they are not good cars. Please stay away from them, especially for a car you will use regularly, Where do I start....
1.You will freeze. Even if the heat is working properly it isn't much. The defroster is useless. Heat is provided by drawing air through heat exchangers over the exhaust system. The heat exchangers fail and can gas you to death. I believe the engine cooling fan is used to drive the air meaning you get no heat at idle and the possibility of other engine fumes entering the system. The ducts that carry the heated air to the front of the car are part of the body and rot out as does the flange used to bolt the body to the frame pan.
2. The Beetle's aerodynamics may offer relatively low drag but they contribute to a lot of instability. The car is shaped enough like a wing that it gets quite light at today's highway speeds. Windy day can be terribly scary and dangerous.
3. The engines leak oil at the push rod tubes, the oil cooler and sometimes the engine case mating surfaces. Just adds to the fume problems.
4. They rot out. Just take my word for this. Most cars of that era are a risk for rust or metal fatigue in the first place. VWs have lots of areas to hold water, salt and sand and were flimsy to start with.
5. Poor brakes and suspension. Even the updated 1970s versions were not good for their day and are terrible compared to a modern car.
6. Not comfortable compared to today's cars. Poor seats, noisy at highway speeds, bad ergonomics.
A member of my family represented plaintiffs who were injured in auto accidents. The old VW cases had the worst injuries in the most ordinary accidents and some deaths at surprisingly slow speeds.
Just my two cents.
BTW: About four years ago I bought a 1999 Sable station wagon with 78k from the original owner for $3800. It has room for me to sleep in back side by side with a DB if I ever need to.
Peace,
S
1.You will freeze. Even if the heat is working properly it isn't much. The defroster is useless. Heat is provided by drawing air through heat exchangers over the exhaust system. The heat exchangers fail and can gas you to death. I believe the engine cooling fan is used to drive the air meaning you get no heat at idle and the possibility of other engine fumes entering the system. The ducts that carry the heated air to the front of the car are part of the body and rot out as does the flange used to bolt the body to the frame pan.
2. The Beetle's aerodynamics may offer relatively low drag but they contribute to a lot of instability. The car is shaped enough like a wing that it gets quite light at today's highway speeds. Windy day can be terribly scary and dangerous.
3. The engines leak oil at the push rod tubes, the oil cooler and sometimes the engine case mating surfaces. Just adds to the fume problems.
4. They rot out. Just take my word for this. Most cars of that era are a risk for rust or metal fatigue in the first place. VWs have lots of areas to hold water, salt and sand and were flimsy to start with.
5. Poor brakes and suspension. Even the updated 1970s versions were not good for their day and are terrible compared to a modern car.
6. Not comfortable compared to today's cars. Poor seats, noisy at highway speeds, bad ergonomics.
A member of my family represented plaintiffs who were injured in auto accidents. The old VW cases had the worst injuries in the most ordinary accidents and some deaths at surprisingly slow speeds.
Just my two cents.
BTW: About four years ago I bought a 1999 Sable station wagon with 78k from the original owner for $3800. It has room for me to sleep in back side by side with a DB if I ever need to.
Peace,
S
It's been said before and I can only say it again cause it can't be said enough....
VOLVO it is. I drive a 940 everything fit's in there. I can get my entire gear in there.
So that's a double bass, an eb (ooohh sinfull me) and my amp. On a bad day I also drive my guitarist around so there's spare room for his amp, 2 guitars and a floorboard Oh and also the guitarist himself.
Not the cheapest on gas but very very very reliable and save.
VOLVO it is. I drive a 940 everything fit's in there. I can get my entire gear in there.
So that's a double bass, an eb (ooohh sinfull me) and my amp. On a bad day I also drive my guitarist around so there's spare room for his amp, 2 guitars and a floorboard Oh and also the guitarist himself.
Not the cheapest on gas but very very very reliable and save.
Here's a vote for the Scion XB. I own one and am 6'-6". They are like clown cars; deceptively large inside. I have easily carried two basses and an amp; my luthier told me he had three inside, on one occasion.
They are Toyota/reliable and somewhat unlike the Volvo (I am also a former Volvo owner), they are inexpensive/reasonable to maintain. Mine gets about 30 mpg, average.
I would try for something a couple of years newer, like a 2006.
Downside of the Scions is that the side impact resistance rating for that vintage are only a 4 out of 5, whereas the Volvo is a solid 5. I would avoid a Scion after 2007; the interior got smaller, the engine got larger, and the gas mileage went down. On the other had, the side impact rating went up to a "5".
Volvo's, of course, are great vehicles. For a 16 year old, however, I would be concerned about maintenance and parts costs. My vehicle, at 16 (in 1976) was a '68 Rambler Rebel station wagon. Great for the bass/amp, and I could sleep in it, or whatever else, when needed.
Since you asked, there are my 2c.
I would avoid the beetle. I am also a former VW owner. They are a project, at this vintage. If you are up for that, go for it.
Other disadvantages to the VW; the heater is like an old woman breathing on your ankles, cylinder #3 wants to seize, and they are slow. With a '74, we are talking about an antique vehicle.
If your priorities are playing your bass, getting in your car, and driving, I would go for a Scion XB.
They are Toyota/reliable and somewhat unlike the Volvo (I am also a former Volvo owner), they are inexpensive/reasonable to maintain. Mine gets about 30 mpg, average.
I would try for something a couple of years newer, like a 2006.
Downside of the Scions is that the side impact resistance rating for that vintage are only a 4 out of 5, whereas the Volvo is a solid 5. I would avoid a Scion after 2007; the interior got smaller, the engine got larger, and the gas mileage went down. On the other had, the side impact rating went up to a "5".
Volvo's, of course, are great vehicles. For a 16 year old, however, I would be concerned about maintenance and parts costs. My vehicle, at 16 (in 1976) was a '68 Rambler Rebel station wagon. Great for the bass/amp, and I could sleep in it, or whatever else, when needed.
Since you asked, there are my 2c.
I would avoid the beetle. I am also a former VW owner. They are a project, at this vintage. If you are up for that, go for it.
Other disadvantages to the VW; the heater is like an old woman breathing on your ankles, cylinder #3 wants to seize, and they are slow. With a '74, we are talking about an antique vehicle.
If your priorities are playing your bass, getting in your car, and driving, I would go for a Scion XB.
Had a '72 Beetle. Always thought of it as a cross between a car and a Tonka toy. In the driver's seat, I could extend my right arm and touch the passenger door without leaning over. Drove it across country from CA in '89. It broke down twice, costing me $35 (broken push rod-installed) and $25 (new drum - installed, plus an additional $35 tow). Scariest thing about these cars are their skinny tires. They don NOT handle well in rain/snow/ice.
Great to play with. Lousy to drive... - j
Great to play with. Lousy to drive... - j
New Year's Day, 1978 or 9, driving a VW Type III (squareback) after the gig from Xenia, OH to Bowling Green in a sleet storm. No heat, no defrost. Trumpeter passenger would stand up, reach through the sun roof, and scrape the windshield (no gloves) while skating up I-75. The best bottle of cognac ever drunk awaited us.
Get the Scion, or a 3-4 year old Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix. They're built on the bulletproof Corolla platform, hold much gear, and will get you 32 mpg, if you get the 1.9L motor.
Get the Scion, or a 3-4 year old Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix. They're built on the bulletproof Corolla platform, hold much gear, and will get you 32 mpg, if you get the 1.9L motor.
I know.
In my school, we've had something like four driving-related deaths already, and I'm in 10th grade. Another kid died of cancer, one kid shot himself last year...Anyway, I'm off course: I bow down to experience here, really. I can't say I'm a safe driver because I haven't been in the driver's seat of a car for more than four minutes.
The counter-argument I've seen on Bug enthusiast sites is that they were made out of tougher steel, the shape of the bug itself has the "Roman Arch" effect and that they were initially meant to be used as off-road military vehicles. Sort of like a German Jeep.
But, they're really not Jeeps. I've done more research on them and a stock, un-modified bug has weak power of acceleration and can't keep pace with the 70-ish highway speed of today. Now, I have found a number of Bugs on TheSamba with modifications. Bigger engines, defrosters--besides airbags, I've seen a few that come close to modern-car expectations of quality and standards, and aside from that, testimonies from former and current Bug owners that say it's a safe car as long as it's not rusted out.
Then again, there are just as many logical, reasonable statements that contradict the the words of Bug owners--No airbags, a chance of a rusted structure, inevitably-low engine power, required maintenance and a lack of modern creature comforts, that type of thing.
I see that more as an upside, really. I don't mind getting my hands a little oily for history's sake. Plus, I'd like to learn how cars work. Any knowledge is good knowledge, I think, just as experience with an old car can only help you appreciate new cars more.
I know. If I were to get a Bug, I would get one that had either replace or repaired parts. Ideally something that's been fully restored sometime in the last ten years or so, or something that's been well-maintained.
I was looking at a few '74 Super Beetles, actually. I found a few that were in beautiful condition on TheSamba. One was restored in '92, another was actually a show car and was on a soda can at one point, another had been in the Arizona desert for the majority of its existence and was refurbished three or so years ago with new lines, CD + iPod player, speakers, etc.
For $6k, my options are open, yes, but I really hate the "snooze-cruiser" concept. There are a good many cars out that I could buy that would be better, more reliable, safer and more practical options than the Bug, and I've considered that greatly. Especially the safety part--not having airbags is the part that makes me second-guess my consideration of the Bug , actually.
But it's the ideological notion that makes me cringe--of just buying a Camry or Corolla or something else that had that non-distinct, dulled "car" shape and image. That's all it is, really, it's not something I would take pride in owning and I'd probably treat it that way.
Would a thorough inspection for rust sniff out some of these issues? From what I've seen, Bug heating works, it's just...a little slow, and won't work at all if you've got leaks and holes in the system.
I know, this concerns me as well. They say it matters the most on the freeway though, where you've got a lot of trucks blowing past.
How so? I'm not very learned on cars. I know that if you had a Bug engine and put it in a modern car, it'd be horribly inefficient due the way it operates, with points and all. Is this the same thing?
I know. My grandfather used to drive a Fox, actually. He loved the car, but when it went in for an inspection, he found that the entire floor panel was just a big piece of oxidized metal. If he would have gotten in an accident, the chances of him surviving would have been low.
I'd like to test drive a Bug, to see what you mean about the brakes. I've no doubt they're bad compared to today (I think they use drum brakes?), but I'd like to really feel how the car drives to know what you're talking about.
Comfort?! What tosh! Just brings you closer to the road!
Wearing your seatbelt has only become standard practice in the last twenty years or so, though, so if your family's plaintiffs weren't I could easily see how they could fly through the windshield or bounce around inside that Bug like a jumping bean.
I appreciate your sentiments! They really are helping to form an accurate opinion on my feelings towards the Bug.
I really love the older-model Scions, honestly. The boxy shape turns some people off but it's very representative of the generation they were built for. They seem like great cars to me, as well as being stylish, safe and fuel efficient.
I'm liking the Vibe. I'll put it on my list.
Man, stay away from the Beetle. Especially that ugly one with the gawdy chrome wheels. xD Volvo wagon is your best bet, or if you can afford SOME (not a ton like some would suggest) preventative maintenence, get a BMW wagon like this: Invalid Link Removed (they can be had for $5k-$6k)
My dad's always owned beamers--they're great cars, ride smoothly and he's never had a problem on one he didn't directly cause (not putting motor oil in it through five trips to Virginia).
The only thing is that he put this stuff on the leather that made it shiny and beautiful. But you'd slip around like crazy! I hated riding in that car because anytime you'd go around a corner, you'd slide around. I distinctly recall playing a Gameboy in the dark on a roadtrip to Virginia while trying to use the street lights as screen lights and sliding around like a hog on ice.
The most recent one he purchased he got ahold of for 4k. Sedan, black, 199-something, and was pretty sweet until he left it out in a hailstorm and the entire car was dented. Honestly I think it looked pretty psychedelic with all the bumps in it that distorted the light hitting it. He didn't think so.
97' vw passat tdi...sedan/wagon
burns on/off road diesel,home heating oil,used "fillturd" veggie oil, 51.333 mpg best so far. 460,000 mi. and counting.
3/4 flatback friendly.
I'm driving a 08 VW Rabbit, loads of room for a 7/8 and an amp...with the back seats folded down. Good luck, happy hunting.
