The ultimate secret to playing fast?

[Daftom]

Been trying to learn the second fast run of the intro to The Spirit of Radio by Rush. "Tabbed" (134 bpm 16th notes): G7 G7 G5 G4 D7 G4 D7 D5 D4 A7 D4 A7 A5 A4 A0

For a while I've been struggling to play this at 100 bpm. Today I tried something new. I set a metronome to 134 and started playing tiny fragments. At first only G7 G7 G5 G4 ... pause ... G7 G7 G5 G4 ... over and over. Then trying G7 G7 G5 G4 D7 etc. Within 15 minutes I'm playing it note for note at 134.

It seems like playing at high speed requires a different approach. You need to get into the "feel"/"flow" (lighter, more precise attack) of the technique required at 134 bpm and that's difficult without actually being there. Once you do, it's like unlocking a door to playing fast.

 

[stratovani]

In his book 101 Bass Tips: Stuff All the Pros Know and Use Gary Willis mentions this very technique, breaking down difficult passages into small sections, and learning and eventually joining together all the sections until you can play the passage.

 

[Matthew_84]

I definitely agree with you. I've also found that sometimes sticking to playing a faster part slower too much can trick your brain into getting stuck in the slower tempos.

Playing quick certainly requires a slightly different technique... If your learning a fast part, practice that technique.

 

[Thomas Kievit]

I wouldn't call it a secret, but I call it practice

 

[Turock]

I wouldn't call it a secret either. I'd call it common sense.

 

[lfmn16]

There is a secret function on TB called the SEARCH feature. Playing fast is discussed in other threads. I actually looked it up myself a while back and found a technique that works very well for me. You should try it.

 

[fearceol]

I've also found that sometimes sticking to playing a faster part slower too much can trick your brain into getting stuck in the slower tempos.

Your brain wont get a chance to get stuck in a slower tempo if, when you have nailed a given piece at a comfortable tempo, you then increase it by five or ten BPM's until you reach the tempo you require.

IMO it is the repetitions rather than the speed that kicks the muscle memory into action. In order to prevent the fingers getting in each others way during a very fast passage (again IMO) it is important to play slowly, so the fingers learn where to go. I agree that small segments at a time are the way to go.

This is what works for me. YMMV.

 

[fearceol]

There is a secret function on TB called the SEARCH feature. Playing fast is discussed in other threads. I actually looked it up myself a while back and found a technique that works very well for me. You should try it.

Slight change of topic for a quick second....sorry OP.

@lfmn16 : Please restore your lovely dog avatar picture !!!!

 

[Daftom]

I wouldn't call it a secret either. I'd call it common sense.

This method goes against my common sense. Common sense to me (and a lot of others I think) is to learn difficult fragments by slowing them down and then gradually increasing the tempo.

when you have nailed a given piece at a comfortable tempo, you then increase it by five or ten BPM's until you reach the tempo you require.

This of course is the standard method and that's how I've always practised before.

With this song it seemed like my "natural" way of playing was impossible to use above 100 bpm. And I had to dip my feet in 134 bpm to realize that I needed to play in a different way there. If I had gradually increased the tempo I would have kept struggling with my exaggerated accentuation of every note. (I think it has a lot to do with my attack being too aggressive when I play slowly.) I know it sounds crazy... all I can say is try both ways of learning and see if you have the same experience.

 

[Turock]

This method goes against my common sense. Common sense to me (and a lot of others I think) is to learn difficult fragments by slowing them down and then gradually increasing the tempo.


This of course is the standard method and that's how I've always practised before.

It's against your common sense to break down difficult passages? Okay...
I think it wise to use both approaches.

 

[lfmn16]

Slight change of topic for a quick second....sorry OP.

@lfmn16 : Please restore your lovely dog avatar picture !!!!

I'll try to find it.

 

[Daftom]

It's against your common sense to break down difficult passages?

It's against my common sense to play something at a much higher tempo than I think I can manage when practising.

 

[Turock]

It's against my common sense to play something at a much higher tempo than I think I can manage when practising.

Well, you're not going to know if you can manage them until you try.

 

[fearceol]

With this song it seemed like my "natural" way of playing was impossible to use above 100 bpm. And I had to dip my feet in 134 bpm to realize that I needed to play in a different way there. If I had gradually increased the tempo I would have kept struggling with my exaggerated accentuation of every note. I know it sounds crazy... all I can say is try both ways of learning and see if you have the same experience.

That's fair enough if it works for you. I just think it is interesting to discuss the pros and cons.

I would have thought that if you needed to play in a different way to normal, the idea of playing slowly to get the brain and fingers in sync, would have been even more important ??? I have tried your way, and I'm afraid it does not work for me.

 

[radioface]

The secret is youth. When we become old, we will never be able to play as fast as we did in our youthful days.

 

[Daftom]

Well, you're not going to know if you can manage them until you try.

Well, that's usually the first thing you do. You try it, you realize you can't play it up to speed, so you slow it down. As opposed to actually practising (tiny fragments) at that high tempo.

I think this way of learning might be more useful depending on the song. For example if you're practising something that's three times as fast as you normally play. (Although the economy of motion that you learn by doing this might always be useful.)

 

[Turock]

Well, that's usually the first thing you do. You try it, you realize you can't play it up to speed, so you slow it down. As opposed to actually practising (tiny fragments) at that high tempo.

I think this way of learning might be more useful depending on the song. For example if you're practising something that's three times as fast as you normally play. (Although the economy of motion that you learn by doing this might always be useful.)

I don't think it has to be and either/or. Use 'em both. I feel quite certain that the way you are describing is the better way.

 

[Daftom]

I don't think it has to be and either/or. Use 'em both.

Of course.

 

[lfmn16]

The secret is youth. When we become old, we will never be able to play as fast as we did in our youthful days.

When we get older we realize it is not a race so we don't have to play as fast. As Muddy Waters sang, "Young horse is fast, but old horse know what's going on."

 

[Lo-E]

"If you want to play fast, practice slow. If you want to play real fast, practice real slow."
-Charlie Parker