The world is topsy turvy

[el jeffe bass]

I was just perusing the Sweetwater website checking out basses when much to my surprise they have a Fender JMJ bass with a pretty hefty discount. The reason for the discount? no tools and scratches, seriously...... discounting a JMJ for extra scratches. I know that there"s more to "open box" but I find the whole thing kinda humorous. Oh well, I guess that I'm just an old man in a new world

 

[iqi616]

The genuine scratches probably highlight the fakery!

When I tried the Fender CS basses the "relic" work was laughably fake - it didn't even include belt-buckle rash on the back. Not something I would pay a cent for.

 

[nonohmic]

There is going to be a point where they find out that nobody can afford to buy anything anymore. That point is approaching rapidly.

 

[ahbass2500]

To be fair, the guitar was discounted for the lack of accessories and the paint contamination. They seem to put that fine scratches note on all of their open box (or at least all of them I have ever seen).

I did not realize there was a recent price increase on the JMJ until seeing this post. Basically doubled in price since it was introduced in 2017 (outpacing general inflation by a good amount).

 

[iqi616]

There is going to be a point where they find out that nobody can afford to buy anything anymore. That point is approaching rapidly.

I think it's been here a while but not enough people have realized yet that credit and debt is stealing from their future selves and debt-dealers are pickpockets, not their friends.

 

[Low End Scum]

There is going to be a point where they find out that nobody can afford to buy anything anymore. That point is approaching rapidly.

Oh definitely. I scrimped and saved for my very first American Fender J Bass in college. It was $1100. It would be a ludicrous proposition for me to purchase an American Fender at this point in my life. The ~1900 dollar price tag on a comparable J Bass from sweetwater is more than I paid to replace my fridge and my HVAC motor combined. SO glad I have essentially gotten everything I GAS'd for and anything else is wildly out of my price range to make it laughable to even consider. I'll stick to second hand/used stuff since I already have more gear than I have skill by an order of magnitude

 

[sheesh]

Proper equipment can be expensive nowadays.

 

[JazznFunk]

I think it's been here a while but not enough people have realized yet that credit and debt is stealing from their future selves and debt-dealers are pickpockets, not their friends.

Depends on the exact type of credit in play, and the kind of debt. Financing a bass that is out of reach that you don't really need to satisfy a simple 'want' is definitely not a good credit use strategy.... but other kinds of debt are unavoidable - i.e. few people have the cash sitting around to just buy a home, car, etc. outright. Nuance is key when discussing what kind of credit/debt is 'stealing from their future selves.' Used properly, it can help you obtain the necessary vehicles to BUILD wealth long term.

 

[BassBrass]

There is going to be a point where they find out that nobody can afford to buy anything anymore. That point is approaching rapidly.

The top 20% are doing Great now (although they may be slightly concerned) and some of these bros are vintage collectors. That can also inspire spending now on what may become unavailable in the future.

 

[GregT]

I would have bought one a long time ago if only it looked like a new bass. Just personal preference.

 

[songwriter21]

I think it's been here a while but not enough people have realized yet that credit and debt is stealing from their future selves and debt-dealers are pickpockets, not their friends.

THIS. Only buy what you know you can afford, or know you can pay it off in a sane amount of time. Took me 25+ years to abide by this, so being debt-free now is wonderful. I have some "necessary" debt (car repairs/maintenance), but that doesn’t count, imo.

 

[Lobster11]

The irony of discounting a "road-worn" bass because of extra scratches is not lost on me, but it probably does make sense to do this with any "open-box" item because there surely are some buyers who will reject even a reclic'ed bass if it isn't identical to a new-in-box one.

 

[iqi616]

Depends on the exact type of credit in play, and the kind of debt. Financing a bass that is out of reach that you don't really need to satisfy a simple 'want' is definitely not a good credit use strategy.... but other kinds of debt are unavoidable - i.e. few people have the cash sitting around to just buy a home, car, etc. outright. Nuance is key when discussing what kind of credit/debt is 'stealing from their future selves.' Used properly, it can help you obtain the necessary vehicles to BUILD wealth long term.

True, but people should always beware of bankers bearing gifts. A big part of today's housing crisis is down to realtors and banks persuading people to dip too deep into future earnings. That brings excessive supply of money thereby reducing its purchase power. Same (if not more so) with student loans.

 

[JazznFunk]

True, but people should always beware of bankers bearing gifts. A big part of today's housing crisis is down to realtors and banks persuading people to dip too deep into future earnings. That brings excessive supply of money thereby reducing its purchase power. Same (if not more so) with student loans.

The current housing situation is a bit more nuanced than that. I worked in real estate advertising from 2006-2008 and saw the bubble and the bust firsthand. Lost my job, and bounced among 3 different jobs in the 3 years after trying to stay afloat.... on top of playing gigs to pay the bills. Those years fundamentally changed my perspective on credit, risk, banking, and the push to own a home. Greed was rampant and everyone wanted to cash in, at all levels. But I digress...

Lax lending standards leading up to 2008's meltdown, with shadow banks lending to people who absolutely had no income and no way to pay back those loans, and predatory practices where they didn't (and weren't required) to disclose the massive resets, did entice people to buy homes they couldn't really afford because 'homes always go up in value!' They were making MASSIVE commissions off of pushing these toxic loans, and the shadow banks/creditors were selling the new no doc/no income loans as fast as they could print them to investment banks to be packaged up into securities - crap sold as gold. When people stopped paying their loans and went into bankruptcy, the leveraged MBS's and credit default swaps sold as 'investment grade' instruments on Wall Street that they were selling people all around the world unwound and sent the entire system into massive collapse. The banks were ultimately at fault, not the buyers. But a lot of people DID make a lot of poor buying decisions fueled by 'easy equity' and greed, for sure. People should have known better, but so should the sharks who sold them the loans.

Then, the rich individual buyers who were insulated from the chaos, and corporate real estate interests (BlackRock, etc) snapped up those foreclosed homes after the crash when the average person couldn't afford them, while they were rebuilding their lives and their employment, during one of the worst unemployment periods of the new millennium. Then, they turned around and rented those homes out in the ensuing years while amassing equity, preventing the average homebuyer from having a shot at purchasing anything at a reasonable price as the economy recovered and home prices blossomed again. Now, we have a problem of not enough supply on the market, and not enough new homes being built. Builders went from selling air and floorplans in open fields for future homes to be built pre-2008 to building virtually NOTHING in the almost 20 years since. The people who own homes are staying in them, and they often have multiple homes that they now rent out short and long term... never to be put on the market again for families to buy as their starter homes. Lending standards are so tight now that new home buyers are almost completely shut out of the market, when you consider that the median home price in many areas of the country is around $500-600k. When we bought our new-construction 'starter' home in 2015, it was right before the current run-up in prices.... we could NEVER afford the home we have now if we were in the market at its current valuation - tax value and resale value. On one level, I agree with you... now is NOT the time to try and buy a home. Smart decisions have to be made about income vs what one can afford - and banks will not lend to you without proof of income and assets these days. It's a TOUGH thing to get a home loan now. And wages have not kept pace with inflation and home prices for sure.

So- one can talk about the 'excessive supply of money' and inflation, but that's only part of the issue with housing. There are no 'bankers bearing gifts' anymore. That said, there are a LOT of people working to dismantle the safeguards put in place after 2008 to protect consumers. History doesn't necessarily repeat, but it often rhymes.

 

[Sharko]

You’d think it would cost more

 

[N4860]

The current housing situation is a bit more nuanced than that. I worked in real estate advertising from 2006-2008 and saw the bubble and the bust firsthand. Lost my job, and bounced among 3 different jobs in the 3 years after trying to stay afloat.... on top of playing gigs to pay the bills. Those years fundamentally changed my perspective on credit, risk, banking, and the push to own a home. Greed was rampant and everyone wanted to cash in, at all levels. But I digress...

Lax lending standards leading up to 2008's meltdown, with shadow banks lending to people who absolutely had no income and no way to pay back those loans, and predatory practices where they didn't (and weren't required) to disclose the massive resets, did entice people to buy homes they couldn't really afford because 'homes always go up in value!' They were making MASSIVE commissions off of pushing these toxic loans, and the shadow banks/creditors were selling the new no doc/no income loans as fast as they could print them to investment banks to be packaged up into securities - crap sold as gold. When people stopped paying their loans and went into bankruptcy, the leveraged MBS's and credit default swaps sold as 'investment grade' instruments on Wall Street that they were selling people all around the world unwound and sent the entire system into massive collapse. The banks were ultimately at fault, not the buyers. But a lot of people DID make a lot of poor buying decisions fueled by 'easy equity' and greed, for sure. People should have known better, but so should the sharks who sold them the loans.

Then, the rich individual buyers and corporate real estate interests snapped up those foreclosed homes after the crash when the average person couldn't afford them, while they were rebuilding their lives and their employment, during one of the worst unemployment periods of the new millennium. Then, they turned around and rented those homes out in the ensuing years while amassing equity, preventing the average homebuyer from having a shot at purchasing anything at a reasonable price as the economy recovered and home prices blossomed again. Now, we have a problem of not enough supply on the market, and not enough new homes being built. Builders went from selling air and floorplans in open fields for future homes to be built pre-2008 to building virtually NOTHING in the almost 20 years since. The people who own homes are staying in them, and they often have multiple homes that they now rent out short and long term... never to be put on the market again for families to buy as their starter homes. Lending standards are so tight now that new home buyers are almost completely shut out of the market, when you consider that the median home price in many areas of the country is around $500-600k. When we bought our new-construction 'starter' home in 2015, it was right before the current run-up in prices.... we could NEVER afford the home we have now if we were in the market at its current valuation - tax value and resale value. On one level, I agree with you... now is NOT the time to try and buy a home. Smart decisions have to be made about income vs what one can afford - and banks will not lend to you without proof of income and assets these days. It's a TOUGH thing to get a home loan now. And wages have not kept pace with inflation and home prices for sure.

So- one can talk about the 'excessive supply of money' and inflation, but that's only part of the issue with housing. There are no 'bankers bearing gifts' anymore. That said, there are a LOT of people working to dismantle the safeguards put in place after 2008 to protect consumers. History doesn't necessarily repeat, but it often rhymes.

Agreed. The person you were responding to might have been correct about their statement if it was 20 years ago, but now, I don't think that's the case. At least not my experience in Canada. When I became a first time home owner in 2018 I had a lot of hoops to jump through financially in order to get a loan. The stress tests that we have to qualify for a home loan are in place to prevent people getting into a situation of taking on more debt then they can handle.

 

[edwinhurwitz]

There are no 'bankers bearing gifts' anymore. That said, there are a LOT of people working to dismantle the safeguards put in place after 2008 to protect consumers.

This kind of behavior is happening in every kind of business. The dream of deregulation has made more progress in the last year than ever before to the detriment of all of us.

 

[LowWay]

The top 20% are doing Great now (although they may be slightly concerned) and some of these bros are vintage collectors. That can also inspire spending now on what may become unavailable in the future.

I wouldn’t say that’s true. My wife and I are in the top 10% by income, and we’re having to cut back significantly and watch our spending carefully. More so than ever. I wouldn’t say we’re doing great, but I acknowledge our privileged position in that we can afford our basic cost of living. The extras we used to enjoy are well on hold. We are very nervous about our medium term security, which is scary as we are getting closer to retirement age.

 

[WG Plum]

I wouldn’t say that’s true. My wife and I are in the top 10% by income, and we’re having to cut back significantly and watch our spending carefully. More so than ever. I wouldn’t say we’re doing great, but I acknowledge our privileged position in that we can afford our basic cost of living. The extras we used to enjoy are well on hold. We are very nervous about our medium term security, which is scary as we are getting closer to retirement age.

If you're in the top 10% by income you are, by definition, doing better than the vast majority, but I'm well aware that even that lofty position can be quickly wiped out for various reasons. Very tricky times we're in.

 

[LowWay]

If you're in the top 10% by income you are, by definition, doing better than the vast majority, but I'm well aware that even that lofty position can be quickly wiped out for various reasons. Very tricky times we're in.

Yeah, I feel we’re very fortunate, but my comment was about the top 20% doing great. I think it’s more like the top 1-2% who are doing great.

None the less, I’m grateful we’re not in crises, as many others are.