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Theory for bass players

... my main problem that I have to get away from is that I saw every note in my head on a piano keyboard then I have to transfer it to the fretboard...

I too come from a piano/keyboard background. The single biggest thing that allows me to apply my music theory to the bass is to think in numbers instead of note names. The bass is set up so rationally that, for the most part, the key doesn't matter. Once you know the root, all the other degrees of the chord or scale are in the same relative positions. A Bm7b5 looks just like an Am7b5. This is not true on the keyboard. I felt freed when I started thinking in terms of degree of the scale rather than particular notes. YMMV.

It's a fun journey. Enjoy.
 
So true, when I first started the Bass and my instructor showed me the scales I thought "dang, that's nice and easy"
I too come from a piano/keyboard background. The single biggest thing that allows me to apply my music theory to the bass is to think in numbers instead of note names. The bass is set up so rationally that, for the most part, the key doesn't matter. Once you know the root, all the other degrees of the chord or scale are in the same relative positions. A Bm7b5 looks just like an Am7b5. This is not true on the keyboard. I felt freed when I started thinking in terms of degree of the scale rather than particular notes. YMMV.

It's a fun journey. Enjoy.
 
I disagree. Musicians play notes, not numbers.

One of the "killer features" of the bass guitar is that we can make music using shapes, patterns, and numbers without thinking about the alphabetical note names. It's not necessary to know standard notation in order to play bass, and that's very, very cool. As we say in the software world, "it's a feature, not a bug."

Standard notation is great too (and I recommend everyone should learn it) but it's also really useful to know what "I-V-vi-IV" means, or that a dominant chord is spelled 1-3-5-b7.

"1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8" is similar to "do-re-mi-fa-so-la-ti-do" solfege, which is a standard part of music education.
 
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I need some good theory publications to read. I went to my music library and dug out some of my piano stuff (Tonal Harmony Kostka/payne) an excellent book for a pianist but not so good for bass. What have you out there??????
IMHO - Piano is one of the best instruments to learn regardless of when you learn it. It is the most effective way to visualize scales/notes/intervals/chords (and the relationship between them) and theory in general. By definition, "theory" does not have to be directly tied to execution (theory = why vs. practice = how).
 
I disagree. Musicians play notes, not numbers.

Very true, but I hear the intervals in the changes and think of it numerically, based from the key the particular tune is being played in. All scales, arpeggios, everything are the same in any of the 12 notes, but for me personally, I just remember I'm in A or C-sharp or E-flat, and hear and play from a numerical framework those scales, jumps, whatever, and move up or down the fingerboard on the five-string.

Living in Nashville, I got very used to the 'Number System', and for simple-r musics that don't have real charts, it's just a lot faster, and really, really reinforces your ear-training. Utterly useless for written parts, but that was never a thing for me, I just never did those gigs, even though at one time I could read both clefs (piano training) like a newspaper.
 
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And too, I never think theory should get in the way of making music.

One of the great physicists (Einstein, maybe, somebody help me . . . ) once allowed he studied physics 'to understand how God did it', and I think of theory the same way. There may be some towering musical and intellectual geniuses that can compose strictly from an arithmetic, theory foundation, but I think the norm is to conjure a new piece or song, and afterwards use theory to write it down, diagram it, express it on paper, though that transcription can never fully capture some things.

I just never believed the cart went before the horse.
 
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Random thoughts to ponder on this.

Most adults learn best quite differently than high school, or even university students, which I've seen many times in my background in adult technical education (both in theory and in practice.) What one needs to do is find what methodology works for oneself, and it also depends on what you want to learn. Some people absolutely need all the pure classroom-like theory first, others not so much. Not all institutions understand this, nor do all instructors, and it can be very frustrating to learn in a manner other than what you need. I've been learning to sing lately, but did not respond well to classic methods of teaching.

Music is perhaps the most beautiful physical expression of math; to me the two are inseparable. It depends on how your brain works. Music is all about patterns and spacing along a number line; there are only twelve keys/notes in an octave, everything just repeats after that, at least in Western cultures. Scales are merely repeating numeric patterns. Thinking of the notes vs numbers does not doom one to being a mechanical, lifeless un-knowledgable player by any means any more than being highly educated in musical theory makes you a good musician. And transposing becomes much more intuitive, almost simple.

Favorite quote: "In theory, theory and practice are the same; but not in practice."

Consider that you don't have to understand the physics of gyroscopes to ride a bike (which is actually an extremely complex learning task); nor does understanding the physics mean you can ride one, but at least you'd understand why riding a two wheeled conveyance is very counter-intuitive.

Unlike linear instruments like the piano, stringed instruments may have mostly notes that can be played in multiple locations, which is a big difference practically applying theory, even though the same basic theory applies. These overlapping patterns add another layer of complexity to learning.

On the other hand, if you really want to gear up on practicing your theory and playing and how it all relates in real time, get yourself an electric spinet organ with two keyboards and foot pedal, and learn to play melody with harmony with one hand, chord structure with the other, and keep a walking (literally) bass line going with one or both feet. Or try a pipe organ. Using two different scales. I took lessons on those for many years as a kid, and wow did that ever pay off when I picked up the bass at 50, 13 years ago, but NOT in the ways you'd think! However, bass guitar is far more intuitive to me when thinking in numbers and patterns.
 
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I agree that a total course and understanding of music theory would require a reasonable contact with a keyboard instrument. However.... if your involvement with music is primarily for bass playing, it would be best to learn music theory with a bass in your hands and be able to demonstrate the principles with the bass. Information that is used is remembered.
And while it's true that demonstrating the proper preparation and resolution of a Neapolitan 6th chord, as used by Bach would be rather difficult on bass... it doesn't come up in conversation very often.
If after learning scales, modes, chords, and alternate harmonization, on bass a person desires to dive into the music theory and history of styles, then they can take a fuller, wider scope of musical experience. But I venture to say that most people reading these forums are interested in how basic theory can improve their understanding of what bass playing is all about.
Thankfully there seems to be an ever increasing number of courses and people willing to teach in this manner. Start with Ari Capp. She seems to be a fine player and a natural teacher.
 
So here is what I have so far......Music theory for Bass players by Steve Gorenberg, Bass fretboard theory Hal Leonard (I could have passed on this one), Serious electric Bass by Joel Di Bartolo, Music theory for the Bass Player by Araine Cap. I also am starting the Spring Quarter at LCCC as Music Major, back to College.
 
What style(s) of music are you learning?

I quoted this because I think it's an often overlooked aspect of converting theory to an actual bass line
Theory can expose you to a very broad vocabulary of choices
But it must be filtered through the narrower vocabulary of the style you are playing.
What you choose over a I-vi-ii-V will be different in jazz vs rock vs Latin vs Funk etc.
 
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I quoted this because I think it's an often overlooked aspect of converting theory to an actual bass line
Theory can expose you to a very broad vocabulary of choices
But it must be filtered through the narrower vocabulary of the style you are playing.
What you choose over a I-vi-ii-V will be different in jazz vs rock vs Latin vs Funk etc.

Since I played 99% classical in piano I want to learn some Bach cello suites, I even have a long scale Bass that I have for that purpose, from there I play Blues and Classic rock, that's pretty much it, I am easily satisfied.
 
quindecima, I see that you like blues from your profile page. I recommend transcribing blues tunes by ear, writing down what you hear, and analyzing what you've written. Chicago blues, jazz blues, all kinds of blues. Determine the chord structures (not always I IV V) and understand the function of each note (e.g., chord tone, passing tone, etc.). Find a transcription that you trust and compare your results to it. Another great aspect of transcriptions is rhythm. Lots of attention is paid to pitch, but bass provides an important rhythmic function. Understanding rhythmic patterns can be more difficult than the pitches. Finally, transcriptions will give you a context for understanding what you're reading in all the theory books and when you meet with an instructor.
 
Since I played 99% classical in piano I want to learn some Bach cello suites, I even have a long scale Bass that I have for that purpose, from there I play Blues and Classic rock, that's pretty much it, I am easily satisfied.
If you're not learning walking bass lines, I'm not sure what more theory you need.

What you really need most likely is to study bass players. And by that, I mean listen to recordings of songs with great bass players on them, and learn how they approach a song. Transcribe as necessary, and inspect what they're doing, with your knowledge of theory.

There's not a book that can do this for you. You just need to sit down and listen.

Funny thing, even though we study music, listening is something many students of music forget to do. People think knowledge comes from books. But not music. Knowledge is "written" in recordings.