Showing exceptions to a rule is also a way to point out to someone that stating an absolute doesn't work.
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Theory is cool but does it make people think too much??
- Thread starter since197three
- Start date
It's NOT one or the other. Knowledge does not in any way inhibit playing with feeling. This is the biggest fallacy on TB. There are plenty of players with a great groove that actually know what they are playing. Most of the people who play stiffly would play stiffly with or without knowledge; they would just play stiffly on the root note.
The only absolute is that there are no absolutes. Of course this has nothing to do with the point I am making.
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buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Learning theory is learning the language of music. I took two years of theory in college (too many years ago), and it does help, both in learning, and communicating with others.
As to your other point, lessons will not make you sound like your teacher. It will help you develop as a player more quickly.
Both take commitment, but are worth it.
As to your other point, lessons will not make you sound like your teacher. It will help you develop as a player more quickly.
Both take commitment, but are worth it.
Fat Steve
The poodle bites, the poodle chews it.
Thanks,,,,I think lolThat song is 13 yrs old actually. Hopefully we keep it going and record new stuff we have.
For real, I enjoyed it. I'd like to hear the new stuff when you get it tracked.
Ok good to know. I'm enjoying the comments being posted and hearing everyones opinion. I love how we can discuss our love and passion for being bass guitarists. Whatever our views and opinions are.
Hmmm why haven't I become a supporting member yet??!!! I will later when I get on my laptop.
Theory is primarily a documentation of what HAS happened in music. There are a few theories
that began as soon as the music started (I believe this is the case with serialism since it's a mathematical
approach to music). However, just because the music happens before the theory does not mean it is pointless.
In my experience, most cats who refuse to learn theory either (A) are old and already established musicians or
(B) are ridiculously lazy and get put off as soon as they have to learn anything beyond a pentatonic scale
or (even more so) have secondary dominant functions mentioned.
Personally, a cat has to be incredibly good with his ears and have some serious style if I am going to ask
him to play my own music. Otherwise there is no point because a lot of it is either complicated rhythms
or harmonies that are constantly shifting tonalities and it would be unreasonable to sit down and explain
each beat of the chart when theory could easily explain most of it (yeah... most of it, haha).
I would think of it like mathematics. Sure, you learned how to count and maybe that works for you.
However, imagine you are given a task and your boss states, "I need you to count these basses. Each
group has five basses and there are twelve groups. Count 'em up and then play whatever you want."
Here is how each level of knowledge would play out...
Beginner: 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1... etc.
Intermediate: 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5... etc.
Advanced: 5 x 12
You see how much less time there is?
Way less time spent figuring stuff out and more time playing.
If playing music is your goal... I'm pretty sure having the knowledge means
you get to play more music!
Also, if you let theory change your style negatively, you're the only one to blame.
That's like saying, "Ah man... I learned this lick. Now I can never play anything else."
Same with instructors. You find someone you appreciate. You don't have to be their clone.
Keep in mind you are already using instructors since you're learning songs by ear. They're
teaching you their personal vocabulary. That's typically what an instructor does.
that began as soon as the music started (I believe this is the case with serialism since it's a mathematical
approach to music). However, just because the music happens before the theory does not mean it is pointless.
In my experience, most cats who refuse to learn theory either (A) are old and already established musicians or
(B) are ridiculously lazy and get put off as soon as they have to learn anything beyond a pentatonic scale
or (even more so) have secondary dominant functions mentioned.
Personally, a cat has to be incredibly good with his ears and have some serious style if I am going to ask
him to play my own music. Otherwise there is no point because a lot of it is either complicated rhythms
or harmonies that are constantly shifting tonalities and it would be unreasonable to sit down and explain
each beat of the chart when theory could easily explain most of it (yeah... most of it, haha).
I would think of it like mathematics. Sure, you learned how to count and maybe that works for you.
However, imagine you are given a task and your boss states, "I need you to count these basses. Each
group has five basses and there are twelve groups. Count 'em up and then play whatever you want."
Here is how each level of knowledge would play out...
Beginner: 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1... etc.
Intermediate: 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5... etc.
Advanced: 5 x 12
You see how much less time there is?
Way less time spent figuring stuff out and more time playing.
If playing music is your goal... I'm pretty sure having the knowledge means
you get to play more music!
Also, if you let theory change your style negatively, you're the only one to blame.
That's like saying, "Ah man... I learned this lick. Now I can never play anything else."
Same with instructors. You find someone you appreciate. You don't have to be their clone.
Keep in mind you are already using instructors since you're learning songs by ear. They're
teaching you their personal vocabulary. That's typically what an instructor does.
I just love these 'theory' threads that pop up every now and again. There seems to be some kind of back thinking that knowledge is a dangerous thing, or that music comes from some undefined mystical connection with something. You can be the most knowledgeable person in theory or totally ignorant, and if you aren't able to think beyond what you find, you'll be a poor copy of whatever it is that you've been handed. Curiosity, imagination and courage are what makes it work. Theory (or any knowledge) will just get you there faster.
Creative people are going to be creative. Dali studied at one of the best art schools in Europe. It didn't seem to kill his creativity. In fact, I bet knowing how to easily mix paints to get his desired colors for a piece let him be more creative, since he didn't have to waste his time playing guessing games about what colors to mix. The idea that knowing a mixolydian scales goes with a V7 chord is going to kill your groove because you're following a set of rules is one of the most asinine things I've read on here in quite a while.
I don't even know what a Mixolydian or a V7 chord is. I just pick up my bass and play. You're the type of player I'm talking about. Theory nerd with probably 0 groove or soul.
There are some weird false assumptions in this thread, like:
Having a good ear is not "music theory."
Being able to remember songs and play them back at the gig is not "music theory."
Having good time and feel is not "music theory."
Being able to write songs and/or come up with bass lines is not "music theory."
since197three, I would actually argue that you have a very good grasp of music theory (as evidenced by your playing); it's just that your knowledge is incomplete and you choose not to fill in the gaps, for whatever reason.
Having a good ear is not "music theory."
Being able to remember songs and play them back at the gig is not "music theory."
Having good time and feel is not "music theory."
Being able to write songs and/or come up with bass lines is not "music theory."
since197three, I would actually argue that you have a very good grasp of music theory (as evidenced by your playing); it's just that your knowledge is incomplete and you choose not to fill in the gaps, for whatever reason.
Lovely. You know absolutely nothing about this person, but you're going to assume he's a poor player because he knows MORE than you?
Since197three, I hope you were joking about LiquidMidnight not having soul since he knows what a Mixolydian or a V7 chord is.
If so, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. That's not even close to being a theory nerd... A V7 is the most
basic function in Western music. Even all of the music that has "groove or soul."
If so, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. That's not even close to being a theory nerd... A V7 is the most
basic function in Western music. Even all of the music that has "groove or soul."
For some reason, it has become acceptable for people without extensive knowledge and certification in a field to claim that they know just as much, if not more, than those who have those things. Absolutely blows my mind.
And then there's the belief that 'my anecdotes prove everything'. If you want anecdotes, here's mine: of the players I know, the vast majority of the copycats who failed to develop their own style are players that also failed to learn music theory. Apparently, sounding just like Jimi Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan is good enough for some people.
And people say that MY generation is entitled...
And then there's the belief that 'my anecdotes prove everything'. If you want anecdotes, here's mine: of the players I know, the vast majority of the copycats who failed to develop their own style are players that also failed to learn music theory. Apparently, sounding just like Jimi Hendrix or Stevie Ray Vaughan is good enough for some people.
And people say that MY generation is entitled...
↑ ouch.
I started learning theory when i started bass. I find that most musicians i play with so far don't know much if any. My limited knowledge saves me a lot of time hunting around the fretboard, but a little more time communicating with them
I started learning theory when i started bass. I find that most musicians i play with so far don't know much if any. My limited knowledge saves me a lot of time hunting around the fretboard, but a little more time communicating with them
That's why this argument always goes the exact same way in every thread on music theory. Some people just seem to have to justify their lack of knowledge. I'm not saying everyone NEEDS to know theory, but the only ones who are against it are the ones that don't know it.
Stick_Player
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- Nov 13, 2009
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Generally because they are lazy. They apply this lackadaisical attitude to everything else. And then, they wonder why they are unsuccessful.
Man, you are too cool for school! Although you paired the two together. I'm calling you out as a troll.
You need to know some theory to play rock or country music. You need to know a lot of theory to play jazz. You need to know a shipload of theory to play classical. But when you pick up your instrument you don't sweat the theory, you just play in the moment. Like my new sig says, if it sounds good, PLAY IT! If it doesn't sound good, DON'T PLAY IT!
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