Theory is cool but does it make people think too much??

[lfmn16]

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

The point is that just because Chet Atkins and Roy Clark can play the sh!t out of a guitar with no musical training doesn't mean that most people can. Most people need all the help they can get. And trying to make a case that you don't need musical training by pointing out that two world class guitarists don't have it doesn't make sense.

 

[since197three]

Generally because they are lazy. They apply this lackadaisical attitude to everything else. And then, they wonder why they are unsuccessful.



Man, you are too cool for school! Although you paired the two together. I'm calling you out as a troll.

Lazy? No sir. Unsuccessful? No sir. A troll???! LOL no sir.

 

[Mushroo]

"Chet Atkins didn't know music theory"???

What a laughable assertion! :rotfl:

 

[Febs]

I don't even know what a Mixolydian or a V7 chord is. I just pick up my bass and play.

A good ear is a great tool for a musician to have, but it's only one tool. A carpenter needs a screwdriver, but he's not going to get very far if that's the only tool he owns and the job calls for a hammer or a saw. If you have a good ear but lack other basic tools, you are going to severely limit yourself.

 

[interp]

Look at it this way. You probably started talking at about the age of 2 or so. You just talked for 3 years or so, not knowing anything about the "theory" of talking (grammar, semantics, etc.). Then you went to school and started to learn to read and write, started to learn some basics of grammar (theory).

Has any of that interfered with your ability to talk? Has it made you "think too much?" Do you think your ability to use language to communicate has been hurt by knowing how to read and write?

 

[since197three]

A good ear is a great tool for a musician to have, but it's only one tool. A carpenter needs a screwdriver, but he's not going to get very far if that's the only tool he owns and the job calls for a hammer or a saw. If you have a good ear but lack other basic tools, you are going to severely limit yourself.

I can understand what you're saying here. I'm not a theory hater as most people on this thread think. The replys on here actually have me thinking of checking out some books as I'm heading to GC with my nephew to pick up a Squier Strat for him.

 

[JaminDyer]

Put it this way:

I've never heard someone who knows theory say it was waste of time learning it.
I do, however, quite often hear people who don't know theory say it's a waste of time to learn it.

Truth be told, the only reason I'm learning theory is because I find it really interesting, especially how everything just links together.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

The point is that just because Chet Atkins and Roy Clark can play the sh!t out of a guitar with no musical training doesn't mean that most people can. Most people need all the help they can get. And trying to make a case that you don't need musical training by pointing out that two world class guitarists don't have it doesn't make sense.

First, I never said you don't need musical training. I have it, it has helped. I have worked with both classically trained and self taught musicians, so I know the difference. All other things being equal, the trained musician has an advantage. But that doesn't mean a trained musician is automatically better than one with no training.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

"Chet Atkins didn't know music theory"???

What a laughable assertion! :rotfl:

Didn't say that. Said he was not classically trained. He was not. I'm sure he picked up a lot of it.

 

[since197three]

Put it this way:

I've never heard someone who knows theory say it was waste of time learning it.
I do, however, quite often hear people who don't know theory say it's a waste of time to learn it.

Truth be told, the only reason I'm learning theory is because I find it really interesting, especially how everything just links together.

Good point Jamin. Thanks.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

This thread has come up before and I think the theory stuff is best analogized into a language like Victor Wooten says. You may be able to tell a story beautifully, but have no ability to write it out or compose your thoughts in a decent or structured manner...thus frustrating you or confusing the audience. In the same vein, you could know grammar, vocabulary, and narrative structure front to back...but if you don't have an interesting story to tell, nobody is going to want to read or listen. Music is in so many ways just like that, a creative person isn't going to become less creative by being exposed to music theory, if anything it can make them go over people's heads too often with their playing/composition.

It's important to understand that the two aren't mutually exclusive to each other. I run into soooooooooooo many people that are like "Well [insert famous musician here] doesn't know theory or how to read sheet music, and they are freakin awesome so you don't have to learn theory!" when what they don't understand is the difference between theory and chops. Flea would be an example of chops without theory, while someone like Michael Manring would be an example of chops AND theory. Personally, I would rather have Manring as my teacher, because I know he can deeply explain why instead of just the how that people similar to Flea might teach. It's whatever works for you, but anyone who plays an instrument is using theory whether they know it or not.

 

[Stick_Player]

Lazy? No sir. Unsuccessful? No sir. A troll???! LOL no sir.

Then there is only one last possibility:

You are a lottery winner.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Congratulations!

Hope you have a good financial advisor.

 

[since197three]

Then there is only one last possibility:

You are a lottery winner.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Congratulations!

Hope you have a good financial advisor.

Hmmmm O K. You win.

 

[faulknersj]

I just have always played bass. Never got into much theory besides guitar class in high school (why not?) or who plays what, where and who played on this or that.
I've never taken a lesson in my life. I basically learned to play bass by listening to music pressing play and rewind on my boombox cassettes BITD.

I would consider myself a groove player.

When I pick up my bass, I just play, make it happen and often think if I took lessons, I would have that persons style.

Am I wrong?? Theory is cool but does it make people think too much??

No. But it depends what your goals are as a Player and what style of music you play to some extent. If you are going to play simple music like rock it's probably not that crucial...especially if you are just learning lines and playing them back verbatim. I have had to play catch up over the last several years and my need for theory has increased tremendously. Just depends on what your doing and where u are going. That said...I've never seen knowledge make anyone worse...

 

[LiquidMidnight]

I don't even know what a Mixolydian or a V7 chord is. I just pick up my bass and play. You're the type of player I'm talking about. Theory nerd with probably 0 groove or soul.

lol I've never been hurting for work, so apparently all of the bandleaders around me dig my groove and soul. Theory nerd? Definitely not; there are cats around that could school me up and down on theory. I just called out for saying something completely stupid and unfounded; sorry if it bruised your ego.

 

[since197three]

lol I've never been hurting for work, so apparently all of the bandleaders around me dig my groove and soul. Sorry if I bruised your ego when I called out for saying something completely stupid.

No problem best friend lets have a beer sometime.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

No problem best friend lets have a beer sometime.

No Budweiser and we can make it happen.

 

[Roy Vogt]

I just have always played bass. Never got into much theory besides guitar class in high school (why not?) or who plays what, where and who played on this or that.
I've never taken a lesson in my life. I basically learned to play bass by listening to music pressing play and rewind on my boombox cassettes BITD.

I would consider myself a groove player.

When I pick up my bass, I just play, make it happen and often think if I took lessons, I would have that persons style.

Am I wrong?? Theory is cool but does it make people think too much??

No more than studying English would make you write like Hemingway, Faulkner or Chaucer. Right now you're ear driven. That's sort of like driving all the roads you know to get to work, to the store and back to home without ever looking at a map. Someone can tell you about this short cut or that one, but you're still gaining information in haphazard drips and drabs. A map lays it all out for you so it becomes easier to play and you're not at the mercy of having your guitar player show you where to put your fingers, trying to pick up the lines off of recordings, going to Youtube or TAB sites to learn (often inaccurately) someone's idea of what was played, etc. It just gives you a better map, IME.

 

[Blueszilla]

Theory and all it's implications is just a means to an end, a communication structure. It's cool to know so you can communicate your musical intentions over distance or time without the need to record what it sounds like (I know, not a good analogy, but bear with me). If you can read the notes, you can make the music. It helps you understand why things sound they way the do and gives a naming system to describe them. It isn't music, but a method to understanding music and how it works. Kids learn to speak without knowing the system, they pick it up through repetition and listening to those around them. Same thing with 'ear' musicians (I am one). My father's family had a lot of musicians, a knack for it so to speak. I was born with it too, so playing came easily and quickly, I was able to correlate what I heard with the position of my hands easily. I didn't know why it worked, I just knew it did. Just like a kid I was able to imitate and become a decent player, though again like a kid, I made plenty of mistakes or bad choices at times without knowing why. When I learned the numbering system (from playing with other very patient people) many things became clearer and easier. This was an accidental introductory theory lesson. When I ended up taking ear training and theory classes in college, I got all the names to things I already knew, and playing got almost instantly easier. I suspect you know plenty of theory right now but just don't have the vocabulary to express it. You certainly won't become a worse player for learning some terms.

 

[Jason Wilson]

I think, some people are born with more natural talent than others. Just like some people are better at running than others etc. Because of their natural talent, they may not need to know any theory, or at least, less than others. For those people that don't get born with the musical super gene, theory will help them progress faster.
It also depends on the music you are playing. If you play mainly all root notes (not necessarily a bad thing) then theory probably isn't needed as much. But if you want to get hired for Dream Theatre, you will need to know it inside & out.

That being said, I have found (IMO), that so many people are getting right into jazz theory, they really know their stuff, but they all sound the same to me. Of course there is slight differences, phrasing etc, but over all, if you gave them the same gear (so you couldn't tell them apart by their sound), gave them a II, V, I to play over, I probably couldn't tell who was who. Of course, I am not saying this of ALL jazz trained muso's, but if you go on YouTube & have a listen, it is hard to find a stand out with their own sound, style, voice (musical).

You are only one fret away from a right note, so as long as you have groove, can you just bluff it??