Thick picks for speed?

[Greenman72]

Ultrashort version of the story: If you want to increase speed, is it better to use a thin pick or thick pick? (Or something in between)

I'm not talking about tone, or how easy it is to hold, or strumming chords, anything else. Just speed.

Longer version: I've been playing about two years now, and I play exclusively with a pick. (I'm not interested in learning fingerstyle--at least not right now, so please don't try to convince me otherwise.) My current go-to is the yellow Tortex (.73mm). When I started picking, it seemed to have the right balance of stiffness and ease of grip. However, I can't go very fast on it. I know that practice and technique are key, but is there a practical upper limit to how fast you can go with a thinner pick? What's the right pick size for speed?

That said--how often does a bassist really "need" to be very fast? I'd like to be able to play "Holy Wars" and "One", but....let's keep it real. How often do you really go that fast?

 

[Wood and Wire]

It's mostly down to personal preference, and a combination of string stiffness, where along the string you strike it, and pick stiffness.

The cheapest experiment (i.e. free) is to strike the string closer to the bridge - but that will have a more pronounced effect on the tone (which can to some degree be compensated for at your amplifier).

Action, and relief do factor into the feel (and consequently speed).

The next cheapest experiment is trying out a variety of different picks (both in terms of thickness, and material - delrin / nylon / felt / metal etc).

The most expensive experiment is strings; and that really is a rabbit hole of stiffness, tension, gauge, tone, feel, longevity etc. etc.


Personally, my preferred setup utilises medium thickness nylon picks (Dunlop 0.88 grey nylon), medium gauge stainless steel round wound strings (Rotosound RS66LC), with a pretty low action, with the string struck slightly in front of a StingRay pickup / slightly behind a Precision pickup.

 

[Wasnex]

I have a relatively light touch. If the pick is too thick I tend to get hung up on the strings. I need a bit of flex so both the string and pick give. A really light pick is even faster, but they tend to break fairly quickly. Also if a pick is too light it may cave too much.

So bottom line is I think it's a matter of balancing the stiffness of the pick again your setup and technique. Therefore the right answer varies by bass, person, and the desired tone.

 

[Wasnex]

I probably should add that I am primarily a finger-style player and the action on my basses is low to medium. The picks I bought for myself are Dunlop Standard Nylon .73 and I still have to use a bit of restraint. At the very least, I would need to raise the action on my basses to use heavier picks.

 

[ardgedee]

Main problem I have with light flexible picks is the noise, they just kind of SNAP! across the string rather than pluck it, so there's not much tone. On the other hand I tend to hold picks too tightly so heavy stiff picks are kinda unworkable too. I mostly muddle through with medium-gauge picks before giving up and going back to finger-style.

I'm not recommending OP play finger-style if they don't wanna though. Picks work for a lot of people, just not me.

Dunlop and D'Addario sell sampler packs of their picks. It might be worth getting some bags and going through them until you find something close to what you like, and then drill down by getting variations on that shape from other manufacturers.

This is an area where personal recommendations from other people are probably not going to be helpful at all because every pick ever made is somebody's favorite, somewhere.

 

[JimmyM]

If I use anything thinner than 1 mm, my hand starts hurting immediately. Thicker picks do the hard work for you and allow you to play with more dynamic range painlessly because you aren’t wasting energy in your hand.

There’s a whole lot more to how I play safely than that, but I find thick picks are key. I use a 1.5mm Dunlop nylon pick with raised letters (forget the name but it’s blue).

Edit: Dunlop Max Grip.

 

[srosenthal13]

I'm primarily finger style, but as was suggested up thread, I got a Dunlop sampler pack. It took me just a few minutes to settle on the 1.14 Ultex. Don't know about fast, but it sure feels right to me

+1 on the sampler pack suggestion.

 

[cxcxcx]

Most players I know that play pick most of the time that can play pretty fast as needed use something from .88 to 1.0 mm. All these players use standard teardrop shape.

Over the years, I found out that my favorite players pretty much used a teardrop shape from .96 to 1.0 mm. Anthony Jackson uses Fender heavies most of the time, and they measure out around 1.0mm as well.

All that said, the great Bobby Vega uses a .73 Dunlop, so it really goes back to preference and what you feel will get the job done for you the way you want it done.

 

[Swipter]

Funny. I picked up guitar and the pick was impossible. Now it's easy. You would think that would translate to bass. Not for me. Maybe my picks are too thin, reading the thread.

 

[Greenman72]

If I use anything thinner than 1 mm, my hand starts hurting immediately. Thicker picks do the hard work for you and allow you to play with more dynamic range painlessly because you aren’t wasting energy in your hand.

Can you elaborate on this? Anybody else have the same experience?

Carol Kaye said something similar. She said "use a thick pick and make the pick do the work for you".
I haven't really experienced this (or maybe I just haven't noticed it). But then again--I've never done a two-hour set before.

 

[Greenman72]

(OP here.) And for the record, I have picks ranging from 0.5 to 1.5, including the aforementioned sampler pack. Here's what I've discovered:

Thinner picks are easier to hold, but I don't like the "snap" or thin tone. And I do find that you have to "push" a little harder to move the string. But then again, you don't get hung up on a string. This makes them easier for chording (or strumming, if you do that in bass), too.

Thicker picks are harder, and move the string better. But you get "stuck" on the strings, and I don't find them as easy to hold. But I do like the tone.

I guess it will come down to this: do you want to play chords? Or do you want to play fast? Does that sound like a legit tradeoff? Or is this a false dichotomy?

(edit - or is the answer as simple as "practice more"?)

 

[JimmyM]

(OP here.) And for the record, I have picks ranging from 0.5 to 1.5, including the aforementioned sampler pack. Here's what I've discovered:

Thinner picks are easier to hold, but I don't like the "snap" or thin tone. And I do find that you have to "push" a little harder to move the string. But then again, you don't get hung up on a string. This makes them easier for chording (or strumming, if you do that in bass), too.

Thicker picks are harder, and move the string better. But you get "stuck" on the strings, and I don't find them as easy to hold. But I do like the tone.

I guess it will come down to this: do you want to play chords? Or do you want to play fast? Does that sound like a legit tradeoff? Or is this a false dichotomy?

(edit - or is the answer as simple as "practice more"?)

The answer is as simple as practice more and don’t dig in so hard.

 

[JimmyM]

Can you elaborate on this? Anybody else have the same experience?

Carol Kaye said something similar. She said "use a thick pick and make the pick do the work for you".
I haven't really experienced this (or maybe I just haven't noticed it). But then again--I've never done a two-hour set before.

Until I turned 40, I never had a lick of pain using a pick. After 40, pain. I learned what Carol had to say about it and pain gone.

 

[JonathanPDX]

I play bass with fingers/thumb 99% of the time, but for guitar I only use Dunlop Jazz III (1.38mm) and if I do need to pick the bass for some reason I use these since I'm already comfortable with the feel and grip. A big part of pick speed is striking the string with the minimum amount of contact in order to produce a vibration. If you are laying heavy into the string with a ton of contact area that will slow you down a lot.

Ultimately, all speed comes down to the same factors regardless of technique: economy of motion. Good posture, reduced tension, and clean technique help, but none of that will overcome the physical barriers present if you are trying to use big motions to play fast. Watch great guitarists or bassists use any technique and the fastest lines have the smallest right-hand motions to achieve them.

 

[cdwillis]

I use those yellow Tortex picks, but the Tortex III version with the pointy tip. Having the sharp tip helps. I used to use the purple big stubby picks back in the day, but I prefer a thinner pick for most things now. Paul Gilbert has been using thin 0.5mm picks for a few years and he can still play super fast with them.

 

[BeyondFiredUp]

Most of the time over the last few years I use my fingers using the "invisible pick" technique. I really feel the most comfortable playing this way and get a great tone. It's like playing with your fingers but getting the firmness of contact with a pick. My right forefinger and middle fingernails are very slightly grown out and it can't be explained until you do it and get acclimated to it. I would explain it like if you dropped a pick and had to play as if you had one in your fingers. That may sound crazy but it works best for me. Sometimes for certain songs I play a regular finger style. As far as picks, they are necessary in one or two songs in parts I do. I have used used the Dunlop Jazz III forever, when I actually do use a pick. Nothing else will work for me comfortably. I'm too spoiled on them.

 

[MrWolf14]

I am also a "mostly fingers" bass players, but I like playing with a pick from time to time and I mostly use a thick pick (I have also some made of metal).

I would second what @JimmyM said: thick pick and let "the pick do the work for you".

There is always "personal preference" involved, of course, but in general I would say that:

• Speed goes together with "economy of motion": move as little as possible
  
  
• A "thin pick" will force your hand to adjust for the movements of the pick: it is flexible, so it changes a bit its angle on the strings while picking.
  
  
• A "thick pick" (>1mm) will require you to hold it firmly in your hand, but this is a "static configuration": your fingers will exercise pressure on the pick (probably higher than what you would do with a thinner pick) but this won't change over time.
  The grip remains very stable.
  Your hand does not need to compensate for any angle variation during the picking movement.

 

[Shenron]

Ultrashort version of the story: If you want to increase speed, is it better to use a thin pick or thick pick? (Or something in between)
I know that practice and technique are key, but is there a practical upper limit to how fast you can go with a thinner pick? What's the right pick size for speed?

I can't say about the exact thickness value because I do not actually use a pick when playing bass, but at least on guitar I think the principle is that the pick should be stiff/rigid for speed, not flexible (there are some really thin and flexible picks for guitars, they are great for funky rhythms but not rigid enough for fast picking single notes).

That said, I can also imagine that a pick too thick might get in the way too. For very high speeds you usually want to hit the strings only with the very tip of the pick, and not exactly parallel to the string but slanted so that the tip doesn't get caught or slowed down by the string itself. The latter is primarily a matter of technique, but secondarily also a matter of how the pick is filed and its material as well, so perhaps not exactly how thick it is at the grip, but rather how thick it is at the tip: too thin and it doesn't stay rigid, too thick and doesn't slide off the string quickly. But again, this comes from my experience with guitars, the bass strings are much thicker and may work differently.

That said--how often does a bassist really "need" to be very fast? I'd like to be able to play "Holy Wars" and "One", but....let's keep it real. How often do you really go that fast?

It depends on the song and genre... if you ask me, bass guitar does its best with grooves, and most of the time speed lowers the effectiveness of a groove. But in genres where the bass serves similar purposes of a guitar, and rhythms are very linear (e.g. heavy metal), bass can be fast.

 

[beaglesandbass]

I mostly play punk / pop-punk, so a lot of 8th notes above 130 bpm. I use .5mm picks.

 

[Tj smith]

It’s less about the pick and more about the angle that u pick. Obviously a thinker pick would bend less.