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Things that would never "fly" today

I don't think most people think that way, anymore than anyone thinks Borat is representative of the people of Kazakhstan.

With both Borat, and Brüno, audiences get that a certain type of person, with certain types of views / leanings is targeted for each scenario (and that a lot ends up on the cutting room floor).


The point was, whereas in the past, it was possible / preferable to have the central, fictional, character be a mouthpiece for bigotry - with the understanding that the audience would be sophisticated enough to hold the opposite view, and by extension of that view, still have affection for / understanding of said character (much like their real life neighbors, and relatives).

Today, that wouldn't be tolerated, or would be deemed far too high risk.

Instead, by having the fictional central character act as a catalyst, for real people (albeit curated) to reveal themselves, the modern audience gets to be judge, jury, and entertained - in the self righteous echo chamber way, in which guilt-shaming culture has grown.

It's not there to fix the world, just to entertain a portion of it.

I would cite South Park as a glaring exception. That show still gets consistently high ratings and its faithful fans understand very well the satirical nature of the episodes.

The characters represent all the best and worst of humanity, yet the audience maintains some real affection for the characters. Eric Cartman, for example, is overtly racist, sexist, xenophobic, and bigoted in every way possible. His character is so anti-semitic that there are episodes where he's actually tried to exterminate Jews. Yet, this Hitler in a child's body is somehow portrayed as something of a sympathetic character.

But that's what satire is supposed to be. It illustrates ideas in extreme ways that are inherently offensive or repugnant, but delivers the message in a sympathetic manner.

Obviously, such material isn't going to appear on network television. Biting satire isn't intended for a mainstream audience that's looking for casual entertainment that doesn't require much mental effort to understand. But Comedy Central isn't about to cancel the show as long as enough people keep watching it. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


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Coming from a younger person's perspective, this is interesting to see. I just graduated high school, and one thing that you can't find nowadays is schools without cameras. There were some cameras when I was younger and they were everywhere by the time I graduated. Probably a good thing honestly, but the stuff people used to get away with in school could never be done nowadays. ME and my brother also were there for the introduction of personal technology in schools (chromebook computers, iPads, etc.) when they were much less regulated. We could download games, modify websites to fake our grades/work, sometimes even download a new OS to completely separate it from the school. My brother even knew a guy with his own nude pictures as his school issued iPad background. With all the restrictions and surveillance now, that could ABSOLUTELY never happen.
You'd be blown away by the things we did when we were in high school. :woot:
 
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I would cite South Park as a glaring exception. That show still gets consistently high ratings and its faithful fans understand very well the satirical nature of the episodes.

The characters represent all the best and worst of humanity, yet the audience maintains some real affection for the characters. Eric Cartman, for example, is overtly racist, sexist, xenophobic, and bigoted in every way possible. His character is so anti-semitic that there are episodes where he's actually tried to exterminate Jews. Yet, this Hitler in a child's body is somehow portrayed as something of a sympathetic character.

But that's what satire is supposed to be. It illustrates ideas in extreme ways that are inherently offensive or repugnant, but delivers the message in a sympathetic manner.

Obviously, such material isn't going to appear on network television. Biting satire isn't intended for a mainstream audience that's looking for casual entertainment that doesn't require much mental effort to understand. But Comedy Central isn't about to cancel the show as long as enough people keep watching it. I don't see that changing anytime soon.


'


That's very true, but the thing is "Til Death Do Us Part" was on the primary U.K. TV channel (at a time when the UK only had 3 channels, and viewing figures in the tens of millions per show).

Not that a cartoon in the 60's / 70's / 80's could have got away with anything that South Park gets away with, but it does make a huge difference if a real person (well, an actor) is presenting a certain view, as opposed to a cartoon character.

The cartoon character can get away with some physical, and linguistic extremes that the real person can't - but conversely, the actions of a real person are lent a certain gravitas, and legitimacy, that carries weight - particularly with impressionable viewers.

I think, even when South Park was on mainstream TV, it always played to a niche sector, of a liberal audience.

If the mainstream audience struggles with satire, then for example, series 20 of South Park (which is a hilarious summation of how we got where we currently are) is sunk - as it wraps satire up in metaphor.


Glad these voices are there, to help process the world in way that makes us laugh at it, rather than just slit our wrists.


I don't know if these things get shown on BBC America etc, but Charlie Brooker (creator of Black Mirror) has a show on around New Years Eve each year, called "Screenwipe", where he runs through the events of the preceding year.

It'll make you enjoy the sense of despair / disappointment in existence, until the next bad thing happens.
 
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That's very true, but the thing is "Til Death Do Us Part" was on the primary U.K. TV channel (at a time when the UK only had 3 channels, and viewing figures in the tens of millions per show).

Not that a cartoon in the 60's / 70's / 80's could have got away with anything that South Park gets away with, but it does make a huge difference if a real person (well, an actor) is presenting a certain view, as opposed to a cartoon character.

The cartoon character can get away with some physical, and linguistic extremes that the real person can't - but conversely, the actions of a real person are lent a certain gravitas, and legitimacy, that carries weight - particularly with impressionable viewers.

I think, even when South Park was on mainstream TV, it always played to a niche sector, of a liberal audience.

If the mainstream audience struggles with satire, then for example, series 20 of South Park (which is a hilarious summation of how we got where we currently are) is sunk - as it wraps satire up in metaphor.


Glad these voices are there, to help process the world in way that makes us laugh at it, rather than just slit our wrists.


I don't know if these things get shown on BBC America etc, but Charlie Brooker (creator of Black Mirror) has a show on around New Years Eve each year, called "Screenwipe", where he runs through the events of the preceding year.

It'll make you enjoy the sense of despair / disappointment in existence, until the next bad thing happens.


These are al valid points. Especially about how cartoon characters are allowed a lot more leeway to offend than live actors. Also about how early South Park was pretty tame compared to what Parker and Stone were getting away with in later episodes.

I distinctly remember watching the episode "Scott Tenorman Must Die" with 3 of my friends, and when the episode was finished, we all just sort of stared at the TV for a minute until someone said, "I can't believe we just ####### saw that!".

I've since come to learn that this episode is a loose retelling of the violent Shakespearean tragedy, "Titus Andronicus" but I doubt if even many SP fans know this.

Scott Tenorman Must Die - Wikipedia


But back to the BBC.

As you said, "Til Death Do Us Part" was on the primary U.K. TV channel at a time when the UK only had 3 channels, yet there was a huge public outcry against the show and it was actively opposed by many government officials and other "decency" activists.

This was at a time when a small minority of writers within the BBC were essentially given a blank canvas and told they could produce what they wanted. It was the same atmosphere of late 60s creative freedom that gave birth to Monty Python.

I believe it was just a temporarily anomaly and it had a parallel in the U.S.. Once we hit the mid 70s, that sort of thing was no longer allowed.

It seems to me that TV in the 80s and 90s was kind of a wasteland of mediocrity. It wasn't until the proliferation of specialized cable channels and subscription TV programs that producers began to push new boundaries. When there's only a total of 5 channels possible to watch, then any program that someone might find offensive is going to be noticed by those same people. But when there are hundreds of viewing options, and most of them need to be selected from a package and paid for by subscription, then people who are easily offended won't even be aware that such programs exist at all.

Just my 2c. I could easily be off base in my observations.
 
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These are al valid points. Especially about how cartoon characters are allowed a lot more leeway to offend than live actors. Also about how early South Park was pretty tame compared to what Parker and Stone were getting away with in later episodes.

I distinctly remember watching the episode "Scott Tenorman Must Die" with 3 of my friends, and when the episode was finished, we all just sort of stared at the TV for a minute until someone said, "I can't believe we just ####### saw that!".

I've since come to learn that this episode is a loose retelling of the violent Shakespearean tragedy, "Titus Andronicus" but I doubt if even many SP fans know this.

Scott Tenorman Must Die - Wikipedia


But back to the BBC.

As you said, "Til Death Do Us Part" was on the primary U.K. TV channel at a time when the UK only had 3 channels, yet there was a huge public outcry against the show and it was actively opposed by many government officials and other "decency" activists.

This was at a time when a small minority of writers within the BBC were essentially given a blank canvas and told they could produce what they wanted. It was the same atmosphere of late 60s creative freedom that gave birth to Monty Python.

I believe it was just a temporarily anomaly and it had a parallel in the U.S.. Once we hit the mid 70s, that sort of thing was no longer allowed.

It seems to me that TV in the 80s and 90s was kind of a wasteland of mediocrity. It wasn't until the proliferation of specialized cable channels and subscription TV programs that producers began to push new boundaries. When there's only a total of 5 channels possible to watch, then any program that someone might find offensive is going to be noticed by those same people. But when there are hundreds of viewing options, and most of them need to be selected from a package and paid for by subscription, then people who are easily offended won't even be aware that such programs exist at all.

Just my 2c. I could easily be off base in my observations.


That's true - although in the UK (I can't speak for the U.S. or elsewhere) there were additional factors, particularly around financing.

The BBC has certain responsibilities in its charter, and is publicly funded - so whilst for example, nobody was kicking up a stink about the cost of making nature documentaries, they caught a ton of flack for the effects budget on "Blakes 7" (years later, one of it's biggest successes was Red Dwarf, and later still the rebooted Dr Who).

There was a huge talent drain, where the BBC would train technicians, producers, directors, writers to absolutely the highest standards in the industry, foster, and nurture their talents, and basically offer them a job for life.

The trouble was, again because of the way it was funded, it couldn't justify high wages - so the highly trained personnel would jump ship, to well paying commercial channels.

The unions got broken up, and cable / satellite networks gained traction - demanding their own, stand-out content - and offered even higher pay.

It's no wonder the really creative, edgy content, ended up on pay per view.

And yet, throughout the 80's, and 90's in particular - and still to this day - Channel 4 built its reputation on edgy, creative, hard hitting content, alongside (and often within) the usual roster of soap operas, game shows and other light entertainment.

It is interesting though, that where U.S. mainstream tv has always balked at nudity - particularly full frontal male nudity - that hasn't been an issue in the UK for my entire lifetime.

And yet, to the best of my knowledge, the BBCs own production "The year of The Sex Olympics" has never been aired again, since its original broadcast.

It seems, in this modern era, totally relevant, and ripe for a remake - but I don't think anyone (except perhaps someone like Lars Von Trier) would have the courage to truly run with the idea, and no free to air network would dare broadcast it.
 
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These are al valid points. Especially about how cartoon characters are allowed a lot more leeway to offend than live actors. Also about how early South Park was pretty tame compared to what Parker and Stone were getting away with in later episodes.

I distinctly remember watching the episode "Scott Tenorman Must Die" with 3 of my friends, and when the episode was finished, we all just sort of stared at the TV for a minute until someone said, "I can't believe we just ####### saw that!".

I've since come to learn that this episode is a loose retelling of the violent Shakespearean tragedy, "Titus Andronicus" but I doubt if even many SP fans know this.

Scott Tenorman Must Die - Wikipedia


But back to the BBC.

As you said, "Til Death Do Us Part" was on the primary U.K. TV channel at a time when the UK only had 3 channels, yet there was a huge public outcry against the show and it was actively opposed by many government officials and other "decency" activists.

This was at a time when a small minority of writers within the BBC were essentially given a blank canvas and told they could produce what they wanted. It was the same atmosphere of late 60s creative freedom that gave birth to Monty Python.

I believe it was just a temporarily anomaly and it had a parallel in the U.S.. Once we hit the mid 70s, that sort of thing was no longer allowed.

It seems to me that TV in the 80s and 90s was kind of a wasteland of mediocrity. It wasn't until the proliferation of specialized cable channels and subscription TV programs that producers began to push new boundaries. When there's only a total of 5 channels possible to watch, then any program that someone might find offensive is going to be noticed by those same people. But when there are hundreds of viewing options, and most of them need to be selected from a package and paid for by subscription, then people who are easily offended won't even be aware that such programs exist at all.

Just my 2c. I could easily be off base in my observations.
BUT
I am always surprised by the amount of total nudity on network UK television and use of swearing language..profanity....can make even me feel uncomfortable sitting with my senior Mother

Then there is Little Britain....I thought hilarious, but was extremely uncomfortable watching it the first time with my mother
 
Back to satire
As kids we watched shows by Gerry Anderson.....Thunderbirds....Stingray...Joe 90....

So , when the satirical puppet movie Team America World Police...in the style of Thunderbirds came out....I thought it absolute brilliance!

A film by Trey Parker and non stop sarcasm and satire.....One of the best films I had seen for a long time.....many aspects copied in Family Guy

Anyway....I asked my older sister if she had seen it....she said no...but her husband and 8 year old son Loved it!!!!

How can an 8 year old view that much racism and understand it as satire......He Cannot!
 
BUT
I am always surprised by the amount of total nudity on network UK television and use of swearing language..profanity....can make even me feel uncomfortable sitting with my senior Mother

Then there is Little Britain....I thought hilarious, but was extremely uncomfortable watching it the first time with my mother


I'll never forget the time I was helping my grandmother set up her new TV and remote. While I was programming channels, I noticed that an episode of Family Guy had come on. So, I commented that I was going to change the channel because she wouldn't want to see this.

She laughed and said to leave it on because she wanted to see what kind of cartoons the kids were watching these days. I told her this wasn't a cartoon for kids and it was sometimes offensive and violent.

She insisted that I leave it on so she could see what a modern cartoon was like. Okay, Grandma. If that's what you want.

In this scene, Stewie (the toddler who is somehow a psychotic adult in child form) gets on an elevator. A man in the elevator is talking on his cellphone but is getting bad reception. He keeps repeating "Can you hear me now?" over and over.

Stewie is becoming more and more annoyed by this and his face shows his increasing impatience.

Then we shift perspective to the outside of the closed elevator door. The elevator arrives and the doors open. Stewie steps out and walks away but the man isn't seen. Then a pool of blood spreads across the elevator floor and runs out into the hallway. End scene.

My grandmother was horrified. She asked, "Did that baby just kill that man?!" I answered that I told her she didn't want to see this show.
 
Back to satire
As kids we watched shows by Gerry Anderson.....Thunderbirds....Stingray...Joe 90....

So , when the satirical puppet movie Team America World Police...in the style of Thunderbirds came out....I thought it absolute brilliance!

A film by Trey Parker and non stop sarcasm and satire.....One of the best films I had seen for a long time.....many aspects copied in Family Guy

Anyway....I asked my older sister if she had seen it....she said no...but her husband and 8 year old son Loved it!!!!

How can an 8 year old view that much racism and understand it as satire......He Cannot!

There are 2 versions of that movie. One of them has some scenes edited out.

Even if you think you're okay seeing anything that might appear on South Park, that's nothing compared to those scenes in the uncut version. Wow.
 
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Now you have piqued my interest

How will I know if I have the raw version?


If you're watching the 50 second scene where the puppet characters are having sex, then that's the clean censored version. If the sex scene goes past 50 seconds to a minute and a half and involves [extreme fetish hardcore sex] then that's the uncut version.

I really can't say more than that on this forum and I'm honestly not comfortable explaining in a PM either, so anyone who wants to know what went on there, needs to search online for themselves.
 
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If you're watching the 50 second scene where the puppet characters are having sex, then that's the clean censored version. If the sex scene goes past 50 seconds to a minute and a half and involves [extreme fetish hardcore sex] then that's the uncut version.

I really can't say more than that on this forum and I'm honestly not comfortable explaining in a PM either, so anyone who wants to know what went on there, needs to search online for themselves.
Thank you...I guess I have the real deal...Defecation etc :laugh::laugh::laugh::D:D:D:D:bawl::eek::vomit::vomit::vomit::vomit:
 
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