Thinking of going from P to double-reverse -P

[Riff Ranger]

I really like how this Electra X700JB looks and plays. I also like the sound—like a thick, dark precision, especially tuned BEAD as I have it—but I would probably use it more if I could also get some more defined and atypical sounds out of it. It occurred to me that I could retain the current sound and add some others I don’t already have by adding a pickup half to either side of the existing pickup, like this:

I’m mostly interested in how that resulting reverse-P nearest the bridge would sound, as it puts the pole pieces under the B and E strings pretty much in Stingray territory, but it seems like I might as well add two pickup halves rather than leaving one to rot in a parts bin.

Electronics remain mostly incomprehensible magic to me, but It seems this would allow the following possible configurations:

•two reverse-Ps in combination i.e. all four pickup halves in the circuit
•a reverse-P with the A and D nearer the neck than standard Fender orientation
•standard Fender orientation
•a reverse-P with the B and E nearer the bridge than standard Fender orientation, in the approximate Stingray position
•a wide reverse-P engaging the B-E half nearer the bridge and the A-D half nearer the neck (weird, but might sound interesting)

The double-reverse-P would also sort of echo or follow the body shape, which I like in theory.

Please note that I’m not just looking to brighten up a dark-sounding bass—I would like to retain the current sound as an option among a few new ones—and I neither expect nor want to nail a Stingray with a passive Precision pickup in the approximate Stingray position (I already have other instruments that get me sounds in that realm).

All that said:

•do I have the possible pickup configurations this would add correct?
•what are my options for a switch? 5-way blade and 5-way rotary?
•very broadly speaking, how would each of the possible combinations sound? (I understand that answers to this question would be highly subjective.)
•should I try to track down an exact copy of this pickup, or would an actual DiMarzio Model P come close enough? I think it’s a Schaller copy of a Model P used in many instruments made in Japan in the 1980s.
•does anyone have personal experience with something like this they would care to share?

Thanks in advance for your helpful replies.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

An interesting project. Have no expertise input though

 

[Chris Chong]

To brighten up, you need to add PU in front of the bridge. Here you go, “reverse P” in the bridge position.

 

[lomo]

If you just want to add options, I'd simplify....leave the current P pup alone and just add a MM style humbucker @ the bridge= a "PMan" similar to what Alien Audio has been offering for years.

 

[ampegfuzz]

ill assume you dont use the tone knob? If its 4 conductor like a dimarzio you could wire a series parallel switch and put it in the hole in place of the tone knob. low steak mod before you start to cut and drill things.

 

[PhR75]

It's a bit similar what Neil Murray did with his Kramer bass in the late seventies. It had a reverse P in the "correct" P-position and another reverse P right behind it so everything same as here but one "block" closer to the bridge. His later BC Rich had a similar confiquration.
All those variations can be interesting and useful too. From what I've learned is that I never really cared for the sound of two pickups very near each other so the "all on" sound might be disappointing. Or not!
But do it if you ask me. And cream colored DiMarzios would look fab.

 

[tidbits]

ill assume you dont use the tone knob? If its 4 conductor like a dimarzio you could wire a series parallel switch and put it in the hole in place of the tone knob. low steak mod before you start to cut and drill things.

You could also do a push/pull knob for the volume or tone to setup series/parallel switching, and retain an entirely stock layout.

This is how I run my basses, to the point that I default to parallel with the option to kick into series for some meat when I need it.

On most pickups, the parallel configuration is a touch lower output, but offers more content higher in the range. Corrected for output (i use a clean boost first in line) there's not really any loss in the lows, just more highs. I've read (but not tested) that the dimarzio Model P is great to use in parallel since it doesn't tend to drop the output between settings nearly as much as your conventional split p pickup.

Like @ampegfuzz suggested it's a lower entry to experimentation, and entirely reversible.

 

[groovaholic]

I've modified my two P-Basses to the double-reverse pickup scheme.
I'm a fan, but I can tell you that finding two pickups that work well together is a CHALLENGE.

Some bassists never use their tone pot, but I never use the volume pot.
So on both my basses, I replaced the volume pot with an MN taper 250k pan pot.

The black bass only has the bridge-side EA coil in the original position - everything else is closer to the neck.
I have that bass stung with flats; the normal-ish middle pickup position excels at thumpy P-bass tones while the pickup right by the neck sounds like Paul McCartney's Rickenbacker.

The brown bass was modified like how you're describing:
Two center coils are in the original position with a DG coil added closer to the neck and an EA coil added closer to the bridge.

Moving the DG coil toward the neck is a great tone; it keeps the EA sounding the way you're used to but adds warmth and thickness to the DG strings.

Where it gets complicated is the new "bridge" location: I've probably cycled through 6-8 P-Bass pickups in that spot, trying to find one that will work.

Up until today, I had a Bartolini 8S nearest the neck, and an Aguilar DCB closer to the bridge.
The Bartolini sounded great, but the Aguilar was just adding a nasal honk.

The video pickup demo of the Aguilar DCB on the Fat Bass Tone website was my favorite, so I was frustrated by how the Aguilar sounded at the bridge.
This made me wonder if I had mis-wired the pickup, or if the location was the issue.

So this morning I unscrewed the pickups and swapped their spots (without changing any wiring) and I like the results a lot better.
In the middle position, the Aguilar sounds just like the video demo that I love, and for whatever reason, the Bartolini doesn't honk when it's close to the bridge.

So, be prepared to experiment...
About that: all my pickup swapping, re-soldering to flip phase, etc., has ruined several blend pots.
So I recommend connecting "pigtail" wires on the pots and just twisting the pickup wires onto those pigtails until you have a combination you love and the wiring/phase debugged.
Only solder the pickups to their final connection spot once you've finished experimenting.

 

[Isaac_James]

View attachment 7414246

I really like how this Electra X700JB looks and plays. I also like the sound—like a thick, dark precision, especially tuned BEAD as I have it—but I would probably use it more if I could also get some more defined and atypical sounds out of it. It occurred to me that I could retain the current sound and add some others I don’t already have by adding a pickup half to either side of the existing pickup, like this:

View attachment 7414247

I’m mostly interested in how that resulting reverse-P nearest the bridge would sound, as it puts the pole pieces under the B and E strings pretty much in Stingray territory, but it seems like I might as well add two pickup halves rather than leaving one to rot in a parts bin.

Electronics remain mostly incomprehensible magic to me, but It seems this would allow the following possible configurations:

•two reverse-Ps in combination i.e. all four pickup halves in the circuit
•a reverse-P with the A and D nearer the neck than standard Fender orientation
•standard Fender orientation
•a reverse-P with the B and E nearer the bridge than standard Fender orientation, in the approximate Stingray position
•a wide reverse-P engaging the B-E half nearer the bridge and the A-D half nearer the neck (weird, but might sound interesting)

The double-reverse-P would also sort of echo or follow the body shape, which I like in theory.

Please note that I’m not just looking to brighten up a dark-sounding bass—I would like to retain the current sound as an option among a few new ones—and I neither expect nor want to nail a Stingray with a passive Precision pickup in the approximate Stingray position (I already have other instruments that get me sounds in that realm).

All that said:

•do I have the possible pickup configurations this would add correct?
•what are my options for a switch? 5-way blade and 5-way rotary?
•very broadly speaking, how would each of the possible combinations sound? (I understand that answers to this question would be highly subjective.)
•should I try to track down an exact copy of this pickup, or would an actual DiMarzio Model P come close enough? I think it’s a Schaller copy of a Model P used in many instruments made in Japan in the 1980s.
•does anyone have personal experience with something like this they would care to share?

Thanks in advance for your helpful replies.

Cool idea. I think it'd look badass for sure, and you could get some cool tones out of it. of all your tone options, I think the basic neckward reverse P, Fender standard P, and bridgeward reverse P will sound the most useable. All four together might be neat, but I'm skeptical of the wide range option, I think the two halves will just sound so different that it'll have limited use. If you want to add EVEN MORE options, you could have each pair of pickups on a series/parallel switch, but something to consider as well is where you're going to add these controls. Right now you have two knobs, and I'm betting the cavity on the back of the bass isn't big enough to add a blade or rotary switch, so in addition to routing out the new pickup cavities, you'd also have to add another cavity for the pickup selector.

Regarding pickups, the biggest risk here isn't so much tonal differences as difference in output levels when you're using either of the reverse P options. You can measure the resistance of a pickup coil which will get you in the ballpark, but there are other factors like the type of magnet that affect the output as well. The safest bet would be to obtain a pair of identical P pickups and put the current ones away, but then you lose the status quo sound, which you said you like. I think you'll have a hard time finding an exact copy of this pickup, never hurts to look though.

Challenges aside, this is a cool idea and I think you should do it!

 

[groovaholic]

The safest bet would be to obtain a pair of identical P pickups

That was what I thought too.
The middle pickup in my black double-P is a Lakland Neopunch.
I was so happy with the sound of that pickup that I bought a second one - then hated how they interacted.

So I left the original Neopunch in the middle and experimented by the neck:
I tried a DiMarzio Model P, a Wilde P-46, a DiMarzio Split P (wired in parallel) and the Aguilar DCB.

What I landed on was an inexpensive Chinese Tesla VR-B3 pickup that just dovetails perfectly with the (much more expensive) Lakland.

http://www.tesla-pickups.com/shop/item.php?it_id=1461576599&ckattempt=1

 

[groovaholic]

I think you'll have a hard time finding an exact copy of this pickup, never hurts to look though

IMO the stock pickup looks a LOT like a DiMarzio Model P
I know that Schaller made something (the PBX, I think...) very similar that went into a lot of import basses.

Chances are you could find an old Schaller on Reverb, but (as I mention in my prior post) there's no guarantee you'd like how they sound together.

 

[darwin-bass]

With no pickguard to hide the work, your suggestion is a one-way street. Once you route the body for the extra pickups you can't go back. Trying a different P pickup and/or different strings are reversable things that may be worth considering before getting the power tools out.

 

[Sharko]

Hey, what does the headstock on that Electra look like? Got a pic?

 

[Boneless]

I say, go for it. I think you'll get more of a Gibson G-3 tone with both pickups engaged, due to their closeness. But it's an experiment worth pursuing, especially if the bass has little market value. I routed a Hofner Club to have a middle pickup instead of the usual neck/bridge combo, which I'd never use anyway. It ends up that I only use the neck pickup, heh. One day I'll try putting a different pickup in the middle position, maybe a single coil, because right now it's very mid-forward. I'd suggest a 500K MN pot though.

 

[Fresh Eddie]

I used to have one of those basses in high school. Played amazingly well.

Double P’s sound great… I say go for it.

 

[Riff Ranger]

Hey, what does the headstock on that Electra look like? Got a pic?

All the hardware that arrived on mine was kinda trashed so I replaced everything with Gotoh.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I used to have one of those basses in high school. Played amazingly well.

Double P’s sound great… I say go for it.

GREAT for fingerstyle. Lack of forearm contour makes picking a little awkward, but it’s manageable.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I say, go for it. I think you'll get more of a Gibson G-3 tone with both pickups engaged, due to their closeness. But it's an experiment worth pursuing, especially if the bass has little market value. I routed a Hofner Club to have a middle pickup instead of the usual neck/bridge combo, which I'd never use anyway. It ends up that I only use the neck pickup, heh. One day I'll try putting a different pickup in the middle position, maybe a single coil, because right now it's very mid-forward. I'd suggest a 500K MN pot though.

I’ve got 1M pots and it still sounds a bit dark, but again, not bad.

 

[micahwc]

I think you could fit two more P pickups in there and do strat wiring.

 

[Riff Ranger]

With no pickguard to hide the work, your suggestion is a one-way street. Once you route the body for the extra pickups you can't go back. Trying a different P pickup and/or different strings are reversable things that may be worth considering before getting the power tools out.

All true, but I’ve tried all that I have learned to appreciate the darker sound of this one relative to my other instruments, hence my wild hair to try adding sounds rather than changing the existing one.