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Thinking of going Power amp pre amp setup.

#41
I was using an Alembic F-1X with various power amps for years. It always sounded great. I still feel that is the ultimate combination for the highest quality tone. However, for small club gigs like I do, it is totally overkill. I'm real into light and easy setups.

My days of pre-amp with a power amp ended the day I plugged my bass into a Mesa 400+. It is a heavy amp, but the tone is incredible.

I still used some sort of a pedal pre with the Mesa 400+, as well as with all of my other amps I used; until last month. I have used several various other Class D amps, GK, Genz-Benz, and Carvin. All of which benefited from the use of a pre-amp.

Interestingly enough, the Alembic does not play well with the Mesa Amps. This also includes my Mesa Prodigy and Subway.

My Mesa 400+ went up in smoke last month. I picked up a Mesa Subway D-800, while the 400+ was in the shop. And WOW! No need for any type of a pre-amp to embellish the tone. This is the first amp I have used where I like the tone all by it self.

But, like I was saying; I still feel your best possible tone will come from a pre-amp and amp combination. And the Alembic pre-amp is my favorite.
 
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#44
Bodeeni said:
I did that for years and have to agree with many of the others. Right now I have a better setup with plenty of power, easier to use and it fits in the pocket of my gig bag. I personally don't see any gain, other than a bigger and heavier case.
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Agreed. I guess the only real advantage I can think of is the 2 power amps versus one. But only in a few situations would that be advantageous. I used the separate pre / power amp setup for most of my 45 years and went through many different brands. I fondly remember a Groove Tube tube pre with a Peavey power amp. My latest, which I sold about 3 years ago, was with a QSC PLX 1804 power amp. Nowadays, with the 800 watt ultra small integrated bass amps, I feel I get a better sound and it is so easy; I have three different 800 watt bass amps and it is just wonderful to have a main and a backup carried in one load-in. While at some point I may put together another pre-power amp rig, I just don't feel the need; it would mostly be just for fun and it would be rare that I actually took it to a gig. I admit to doing a gig recently with a small tube pre run into the power section of one of my ultra-small bass amps. It was fun and had a nice warm sound and it still weighed almost nothing compared to a racked power amp/pre setup.
 
#46
IMG_0409.JPG


Ampeg Svp pro into carvin dcm 1500
 
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#47
I used a Tech21 RBI into a Crest power amp for a while and it sounded okay.
At this time happier simply using a Mesa D-800.
The Mesa is smaller, lighter, and sounds better IMHO.
I really don't need more than 800 watts at this time, and don't expect to in the near future.
 
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#48
gelinas666 said:
QSC PLX series power amp with your favorite tone.. They run cool and very transparent for a power amp.. :thumbsup:
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I've had 2 QSC power amps and they've always performed for me. Another benefit of the separate pre/power setup is the ability to "preamp role". Want to try a new sound? Just swap the preamp and reconnect to your power. You can change my sound with a screwdriver and 4 rack screws. My 3 favorite preamps I've tried with this combo so far - Jule Monique, Alembic F2b (this one really liked my Stingray, perhaps due to the fender tone stack?), and older Ampeg SVP-CL wasn't bad either.
 
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#49
1AF2C567-C2B4-477F-80D9-CA055FA1A6A2.png

1 and done! I found you lose some punch with pre/power amp setups. Class D amps have all the headroom, punch and weighs less than any rack set up.
 
#50
Laklandfan said:
I've had 2 QSC power amps and they've always performed for me. Another benefit of the separate pre/power setup is the ability to "preamp role". Want to try a new sound? Just swap the preamp and reconnect to your power. You can change my sound with a screwdriver and 4 rack screws. My 3 favorite preamps I've tried with this combo so far - Jule Monique, Alembic F2b (this one really liked my Stingray, perhaps due to the fender tone stack?), and older Ampeg SVP-CL wasn't bad either.
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Nice! I just house mine in a separate roadcase and change the the 1/4" cable in the back to whatever preamp I choose..:thumbsup:
 
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#53
I've used a Crown XLS1000 for several years and been quite happy with it. Roughly 9 pounds, and plenty of power for my needs. If your bass is active you won't need another pre at all, just a mixer or some such to raise the impedance to match what the power amp requires. (I too have found that pre's and power amps together sometimes result in clipping and similar issues.)
 
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#54
joel406 said:
But I was looking for maybe something that could drive my cabs a little more. We play large venues and I was thinking of being able to get close to what my cabs can handle.

Technically they can handle 1600 watts.
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"Technically?"

Joel: there is a reason why Jeff said what he said in post #52.

Your GK 410 cabs may be "rated" at 800 watts RMS per cab, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that those cabs can actually handle 800 watts each. Most consumer-grade cab manufacturers publish wattage ratings based on what amount of power will melt the voice coils (known as the "thermal" rating). Those manufacturers love to publish those ratings because the number sounds so impressive, especially to unsuspecting buyers. The real limiting factor with bass cabs isn't the thermal rating, but rather the *mechanical* rating (the limit of cone movement). You won't find consumer-grade cab manufacturers publishing those numbers! Goodness no! They want to keep those numbers hush hush! A safe rule of thumb to use is, the mechanical rating for consumer-grade cabs is about half of their thermal rating. So for your pair of GK 410's being used together, that would be around 800 watts.

When I say "consumer-grade", I am referring to those commonly mass-produced cabs of various brands that you find all over the place. Their published wattage ratings are thermal, not mechanical. However, there are a few boutique cab builders that don't play that sneaky game. You can actually trust their published wattage ratings because they are more representative of what their cabs can actually handle. A few examples of those cab builders are Jim Bergantino, Alex Claber (Barefaced cabs), Duke LeJeune (Audiokinesis), and Greenboy (fEarful, fEarless).

Hope that info helps! :thumbsup:
 
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#57
I was bored and set this up today. Total investment from pawn shops was $260.00. I think this will be my practice rig for at least a little while. Sounds a lot better than I expected. I have a Sanamp pedal at the rehearsal studio I'll bring home to try next week but the Boss isn't horrible by any means and I can do some looping with it.
20171001_141516-01.jpeg
 
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#58
FloridaSam said:
I was bored and set this up today. Total investment from pawn shops was $260.00. I think this will be my practice rig for at least a little while. Sounds a lot better than I expected. I have a Sanamp pedal at the rehearsal studio I'll bring home to try next week but the Boss isn't horrible by any means and I can do some looping with it. View attachment 2769655
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i've used a mxr m81, mxr 10 band eq, and a proco rat direct into a power amp with decent results.
 
#60
Joeykun said:
I found you lose some punch with pre/power amp setups.
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Joey: it sounds like you may have had a mismatch of some sort (low output voltage from your preamp, or your power amp having too high of an input sensitivity). Just guessing, of course!

I say that because the various preamp/power amp rigs I have used have been, for the most part, very punchy and muscular! An integrated amp head is nothing more than a separate preamp connected to a separate power amp inside one box. The benefit of that is, the designer ensures that there's no mismatch between those two components. When using separate (pre/power) components as the OP wishes to do, the user needs to confirm that those two components play well together. It just takes a few minutes of reviewing the specs of the components to confirm it.

OP: as you can see from the various posts in this thread, different players have many different preferences. That's cool. That's the way it SHOULD be! Your personal choice is for a preamp/power amp rig. I happen to like that type of rig as well. Since you have made that choice for yourself, you will find that you have lots of options for various preamps as well as power amps. For preamps, you can go with tube (examples are Arkham Zephyr, Ampeg, Trace V-Type, BBE BMax-T, Kern IP-777, Alembic, etc.) or solid state. It all depends on your tone goals and the sound that you prefer. For power amps, you can go with light or heavy. The lighter ones usually employ SMPS (switch mode power supply) and some of them use Class AB or H output topology, and others use Class D output. Heavy power amps typically use traditional linear power supplies and Class AB or H output topology. My personal preference is a tube preamp (Arkham Zephyr) into a heavy QSC RMX 2450a power amp with a traditional linear power supply and Class H output. It brings the thunder!!!

Btw, there will be those who have a different opinion on this than I do, but for me personally, the best sounding preamps have been the ones that feed high voltage (~300Vdc) to the tube. Examples are Arkham Zephyr, BBE-BMax-T, Kern, Alembic.

Enjoy your gear search! :thumbsup:
 
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