Thinking of going Power amp pre amp setup.

[Spent]

Be careful, I went down that road a few years ago. And it’s a toll road. Told myself that I did it for flexibility. It was really an excuse to buy pre amps. Recently picked up a Quilter Bass Block and I couldn’t be happier. I’m not saying this to discourage you, it was a lot of fun, just be prepared.

 

[Brother Goose]

I run a GK plex into a CARVIN HD 3000 and love the sound.

Modularity is a wonderful thing but also requires a few extra cables and creates new points of failure.

I can't run the cost/benefit analytics for you but it was the best way for me get big power without breaking the bank.

 

[CapnSev]

what do you use @JimiLL ?

What active cabs are you using if you don't mind my asking?

 

[mark roberts]

I have tried many combinations over the years. All the way through the bigger power full-feature class D heads. Many preamp/poweramp combinations. Many speakers, too. I have settled on preamps and poweramps that provide consistently good sound, reliability and fairly light weight. For my mono, essentially bass, cable, head, speaker for a smaller/mid-size combo group, the head is a pre-Fender SWR Bass 350 (through a 4ohm Acme LowB2). But my main rig is set-up stereo. Two pre-Fender SWR Grand Prix preamps. The power is the same era Stewart 1.2 1u convection-cooled power amp. And I use two of them. One drives an Acme Low B1 and Low B1W on each channel, stereo (4 ohms/side-350 watts/side). The other drives an Acme Low B2 on each channel (4 ohms/side-350 watts/side). In addition to standard bass contributions to groups, I also play extended-range bass and have a lot of mod-based effects. The system is very modular and I can downsize as the venue requires. My 4-space preamp rack with the two SWRs, dbx 166a and be enhancer weights about 25-lbs and has wheels and a retractable handle. The 4-space power amp rack weighs the same and has the same mobility. And the rig fits into a KIA Soul, barely.

 

[jeff62]

With all the fine class D amps that are light and great sounding, the separate pre and power just doesn’t make sense to me any longer if you’re amp shopping. YMMV

 

[steve66]

Been using this basic workhorse rig for years.

QSC RPM 850
SansAmp RBI
Dbx 166XL Compressor/Limiter/Gate
Korg DTR 1000 Tuner
Furman Power Conditioner

 

[basslust]

Are there any light weight power amps that you guys are familiar with? I could insert a preamp pedal past the preamp and before the power amp on a lightweight 500w class D head, but does anyone know if something like this exists without the preamp?

 

[40Hz]

I'm currently midway there. I'm using a variety of preamp pedals into the effects return of an amp I already have. I'll eventually get a dedicated power amp just for that.

In the past I had an Acoustic 360/361 combination which is (for those unfamiliar with the original Acoustic Control Corp. amps) a 360 preamp into a 361 powered cab. I also briefly used a custom built preamp into a Crown head after that.

It's all very doable, and IMO worth pursuing if you like variety.

 

[SactoBass]

I built my rack around the wonderful Fender TBP-1 preamp. Got a Crown 2500 XLS on here, and just added an Art power supply (thanks, Bassflute). I'm really enjoying the full warm sound of this rig, and don't see myself going back to an integrated bass head.

I'll bet that sounds sweet coming through that Berg Ref 112!

 

[joel406]

Do you like the sound of your Subway, and if not, what are you looking for? The Mesa preamp is the pre that you already have in that head, except for some minor extra features in your plus model.

As for other preamps, why not just get one and try running it in your head's poweramp. The Tech 21 products for example are cost effective, offer ampegy sounds and can also be used as pedals into your existing pre.

I'm not unhappy with my Subway. But when pushed it seems to clip very easily. I can adjust and get the volume/tone I want. But I was looking for maybe something that could drive my cabs a little more. We play large venues and I was thinking of being able to get close to what my cabs can handle.

Technically they can handle 1600 watts.

 

[Jazz Ad]

What active cabs are you using if you don't mind my asking?

Bergantino IP112ER, sometimes coupled with another Berg 12".
It's not considered light by today's standards but so far it is the best amp I've heard so I keep it. It's also freaking loud.
Preamps change depending on my mood. These days it's a Zoom B3 and/or a Fishman Platinum Pro.
I also have an Ampeg SCR-DI and a TwoNotes LeBass that tend to walk on each other. One of them will go but I haven't yet decided which one.

Are there any light weight power amps that you guys are familiar with? I could insert a preamp pedal past the preamp and before the power amp on a lightweight 500w class D head, but does anyone know if something like this exists without the preamp?

Demeter Minnie800, Jules M700, GSS Baby Sumo.

We play large venues and I was thinking of being able to get close to what my cabs can handle.

Technically they can handle 1600 watts.

The Demeter 1600D could be your answer.

 

[joel406]

Bergantino IP112ER, sometimes coupled with another Berg 12".
It's not considered light by today's standards but so far it is the best amp I've heard so I keep it. It's also freaking loud.
Preamps change depending on my mood. These days it's a Zoom B3 and/or a Fishman Platinum Pro.
I also have an Ampeg SCR-DI and a TwoNotes LeBass that tend to walk on each other. One of them will go but I haven't yet decided which one.

Demeter Minnie800, Jules M700, GSS Baby Sumo.
The Demeter 1600D could be your answer.

I'll check them out.

 

[winegamd]

There are plenty of preamps, tube and solid state, that can be had used for less than $400. There are MULTIPLE 1000watt power amps that can be found used for less than $400. That is about the same price as the better integrated heads are used, so price point is about the same. However, if you are thrifty and wait for deals you can end up with multiple preamps and an amp for less than $800. In fact, in the classifieds, you can usually find entire racks for less than $600.

 

[Manticore]

I've used Crown amps since the '70s. I currently have five XTi 4000 amps for my PA. One of them is mounted in a separate rack so I can use either my Alembic F-X1 or an SWR ISO pre amp for when I want to use a bass rig. (I don't often use a bass rig on stage any longer.) It's really difficult to go wrong with Crown amps. As for pre amps, well, there are many good units for bass, and it's up to you to find one that speaks to you. IDemeter, I prefer the Alembic for most work, but sometimes the Intersteller Overdrive is what is needed for a particular gig.

 

[fnordlyone]

I was all into pre pedals into a power amp. Then I met the ancient Peavey Mark line. I found these bass heads cheaper than power amps. Of course you can use this Peavey line as power amps. They do other cool things too. You might not find such a simple bi-amp (based on frequency) function in many power amps. One can bypass the Bass head's pre amp by plugging into the PWR AMP 1/4" jack, and they are clean.
fnord!

 

[brett adams]

i'm a fan of rack mount preamps and power amps. some pretty great deals can be found on well regarded roadworthy gear. i like stewart power amps. no noise, no fan, plenty of power, and 1/4 input and output jacks. they don't pop up in the used market very frequently, but when they do, they can be snagged for between 100 and 250. i've got preamps i love that i paid 20 dollars for and others that i'm half frustrated with that i paid 700 for. top 3 in no order: yahama pb-1, alembic f-1x, and maybe the tc electronic tc 1144 i just got this week.

 

[tradernick]

I second Manticore's comments re: Crown. Hard to go wrong. In the days when I ran a Yamaha PB-1, I used a Crest, a 3001 I think. I used it because our sound man told me they spec'd out really well and he used them to drive the Turbosound FOH rig we bought (in the days when a bar band could make $3.5K a week and play 50 weeks a year).

I will say this. Try running a very high quality pro audio power amp like a high end Crest, rated really high, into a good cab rated at i.e. 600 or 800 watts, like a Bergantino 4x10. Pick a good preamp with a tube, and play at medium levels and see what impression you get.

 

[2112]

Here's mine. Amp is only 12lbs. Total rack is less than 30lbs.
View attachment 2768980

For years I played thru a copy of Geddy's effects rack, a Trace Elliot AH400 PA as well as 1048H + 1818H speaker cabs. Total rig weight was over 300 lbs.

I'm a diehard pre+power amp guy, but wanted something lighter & more flexible. So recently I've started monkeying around with this:

This is around 20 lbs, and I'm running its 500 Watts thru Markbass 151HF & 102HF cabs... total rig weight is just over 100 lbs. The sound isn't quite as good as it is with my "big iron" setup... but in most casual & small-venue situations it'll be good enough... 99.9999% of the audience wouldn't notice and couldn't care less about any sonic difference between the two rigs. It's very flexible and my back thanks me too... I ain't getting any younger.

Anyhow I showed you this so you could see what could be done in a simple, lightweight, flexible setup involving a class D amp. If you decide to do the pre+power amp thing I strongly recommend resisting the temptation of building out an effects rack full of gadgets you won't need (and/or that you already may have on a pedalboard)... it's rather quite easy to fall into this trap once you step into the expansive and expensive world of rack equipment.

One more thing... before you take the plunge, ask yourself why you're considering changing up the way you're doing things. Will the difference be worth what you'll invest both in terms of money and time spent learning a new rig?

 

[Bodeeni]

I did that for years and have to agree with many of the others. Right now I have a better setup with plenty of power, easier to use and it fits in the pocket of my gig bag. I personally don't see any gain, other than a bigger and heavier case.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

Works for me...