So how do you actually know where to play on the fretboard when you see all those ledger lines? I'm trying to improve reading notes and such (obviously without TABS). So let say there are 3 legder line above a staff (lets just pick the note F for this one), how do I know where I play it?
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Those ledger lines make me nuts
- Thread starter Thomas Kievit
- Start date
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
Not sure what you are asking. Once you know the note, you know where to play it. Seventh fret on the D string is the same as the second on the G. Unlike tab, proper notation does not tell you where on the neck to play it.
TL;DR - Memorize it.
It's the same as any other written music - the ledger tells you pitch and time and you've got to dope out the fingerings while tab is all about the fingerings (which comes along with pitch), but you've got to come up with time. IIRC, many charts from the guitar/bass mags have both, but that's rare by any measure.
There are a limited number of high F's on the bass. I only use one (G-10) because the D is pretty far up on the fretboard and the A is on my highest fret, although I would gladly use them if I was avoiding a position switch. Higher notes are like that; get a fingering chart if needed and practice, practice, practice.
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I think it's more accurate to say that tab is about frets. It doesn't provide any information about fingerings.
You've asked a good question. I identify what the ledger note is and then write it's name on the sheet music using a number 2 pencil. Yes ledger notes are a bitch. I hope this makes since.
Standard notation at first position, i.e. the first four frets give you one plus octaves of the F scale, i.e G, A & Bb will be on the G string if you need to go higher into the second octave just keep going on up the G string.
However if you grab your F scale at another position like the 3rd string 8th fret - for four frets, you run out of scale notes faster and have to go up the G string quicker.
Then there is an F scale position at the 13th fret that duplicates first position, as everything repeats after the 12th fret.
So how and where you play those ledger lines depends on where you decide to place the F scale.
Hope that helps.
Standard notation at first position, i.e. the first four frets give you one plus octaves of the F scale, i.e G, A & Bb will be on the G string if you need to go higher into the second octave just keep going on up the G string.
However if you grab your F scale at another position like the 3rd string 8th fret - for four frets, you run out of scale notes faster and have to go up the G string quicker.
Then there is an F scale position at the 13th fret that duplicates first position, as everything repeats after the 12th fret.
So how and where you play those ledger lines depends on where you decide to place the F scale.
Hope that helps.
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One trick I used when I was a beginner was to remember that 3 ledger lines above the staff is G on the G string, 12th fret. The 12th fret is easy to find on most basses because it has a double-dot. So I use that as my reference point and then go up/down depending on how many ledger lines there are. For example the note on the 4th ledger line must be B on the 16th fret (two notes higher than G).
(Assuming there are no sharps/flats of course.)
(Assuming there are no sharps/flats of course.)
I get where you are coming from, but overthinking it makes it worse, tbh. Breaking it down into basics, and seeing how they combine to paint the picture is the bets way to get a handle on it
For example, a C on the 2nd space of the staff (one of the first notes learned) would typically be played 3rd fret A string (but could be played 8th fret, E string, same note, same pitch - assuming E Standard tuning)
C on the first ledger line above the staff is just an octave higher (typically G string 5th fret but could be D string 10th fret or A string 15th)
1st ledger line = C
2nd ledger line = E (G string, 9th fret / D string 14th fret / A string 19th)
3rd ledger line = G (G string, 12th fret / D=17 / A probably can't hit it, but if you have 22 frets, you can)
4th = B (G string, 16th fret or D 21st)
Exactly what Remyd said is bang on, pick the one based on which position your hand is already in for the song. If possible, take the path of least resistance, unless the song calls for a wicked slide along the neck or something lol
and practice, practice, practice until it comes second nature. You'll get there. Learning standard notation was a pain in the ass for me.
For example, a C on the 2nd space of the staff (one of the first notes learned) would typically be played 3rd fret A string (but could be played 8th fret, E string, same note, same pitch - assuming E Standard tuning)
C on the first ledger line above the staff is just an octave higher (typically G string 5th fret but could be D string 10th fret or A string 15th)
1st ledger line = C
2nd ledger line = E (G string, 9th fret / D string 14th fret / A string 19th)
3rd ledger line = G (G string, 12th fret / D=17 / A probably can't hit it, but if you have 22 frets, you can)
4th = B (G string, 16th fret or D 21st)
Exactly what Remyd said is bang on, pick the one based on which position your hand is already in for the song. If possible, take the path of least resistance, unless the song calls for a wicked slide along the neck or something lol
and practice, practice, practice until it comes second nature. You'll get there. Learning standard notation was a pain in the ass for me.
Okay, great! Thanks for the inout everybody!
Oh I almost forgot : does there change anything with the staff / ledger lines if you play in alternative tunings?
Oh I almost forgot : does there change anything with the staff / ledger lines if you play in alternative tunings?
I like to look ahead in the music to see what the highest note is that needs to be played, and then to look for opportunities to get into a position where that note can be played efficiently and without a sudden long jump in positions.
Here is an example from a show I recently played.
The red Roman numerals on the bottom are the position I played in (V = 1st finger on the fifth fret, VII = 1st finger on the seventh fret). The black numbers on the top are the fingers I used to play the notes (I play Simandl style, with fingers 124, even up in position VII unless I'm playing something that specifically calls for one finger per fret).
For this particular example, I saw that the highest note in measure 74a was an E, two ledger lines above the staff. There are two places on my bass where I can realistically play that note: the ninth fret of the G string, or the 14th fret of the D string. I will usually default to the lowest available position unless there is a need to use a higher position, so I would play that note on the ninth fret of the G string.
But what finger to use to play that high E? Well, look at the highest note and determine how to get to it efficiently without a big jump for that note and with the fewest position shifts. For example, I could have played the notes leading up to it on the second and fourth frets of the D and G strings, but then I would have had to make a large, quick jump up to the E. I could have played the high E with my first finger, and the B preceding it with my first finger, but the A before that would not have been within reach. But, looking at the figure, I recognized that if I played the highest E with my fourth finger, the five notes leading up to it could all be played in the same position.
Working backwards, I recognized that I could play the first two notes that measure and the third note (B) on the second fret of the A string, but then there would be a big jump to get to VII for the rest of the measure. So I saw that if I played the first three notes in position V, I would need to shift only two frets to get to the higher notes. I think the first time I played this measure, when I was sight-reading, I played the first E A B E E in position 5, and then shifted to position seven during the tied note. After that, I realized it would be more efficient to shift after playing the low B.
This explanation makes it sounded more complicated than it is. In reality, I've been playing and reading long enough that I recognize that the second half of the measure is root fourth fifth octave fifth fourth root, and I know from experience that I can play the root with my first finger and the octave with my fourth, so it didn't take more than a glance at the measure as I was sight-reading to recognize that my fourth finger needed to be on that high E, and the rest of the figure just fell into place. But as you're learning, you just need to sit down and work through as many examples as possible, and keep saying to yourself, "what is the most efficient way to play this?"
Here is an example from a show I recently played.
The red Roman numerals on the bottom are the position I played in (V = 1st finger on the fifth fret, VII = 1st finger on the seventh fret). The black numbers on the top are the fingers I used to play the notes (I play Simandl style, with fingers 124, even up in position VII unless I'm playing something that specifically calls for one finger per fret).
For this particular example, I saw that the highest note in measure 74a was an E, two ledger lines above the staff. There are two places on my bass where I can realistically play that note: the ninth fret of the G string, or the 14th fret of the D string. I will usually default to the lowest available position unless there is a need to use a higher position, so I would play that note on the ninth fret of the G string.
But what finger to use to play that high E? Well, look at the highest note and determine how to get to it efficiently without a big jump for that note and with the fewest position shifts. For example, I could have played the notes leading up to it on the second and fourth frets of the D and G strings, but then I would have had to make a large, quick jump up to the E. I could have played the high E with my first finger, and the B preceding it with my first finger, but the A before that would not have been within reach. But, looking at the figure, I recognized that if I played the highest E with my fourth finger, the five notes leading up to it could all be played in the same position.
Working backwards, I recognized that I could play the first two notes that measure and the third note (B) on the second fret of the A string, but then there would be a big jump to get to VII for the rest of the measure. So I saw that if I played the first three notes in position V, I would need to shift only two frets to get to the higher notes. I think the first time I played this measure, when I was sight-reading, I played the first E A B E E in position 5, and then shifted to position seven during the tied note. After that, I realized it would be more efficient to shift after playing the low B.
This explanation makes it sounded more complicated than it is. In reality, I've been playing and reading long enough that I recognize that the second half of the measure is root fourth fifth octave fifth fourth root, and I know from experience that I can play the root with my first finger and the octave with my fourth, so it didn't take more than a glance at the measure as I was sight-reading to recognize that my fourth finger needed to be on that high E, and the rest of the figure just fell into place. But as you're learning, you just need to sit down and work through as many examples as possible, and keep saying to yourself, "what is the most efficient way to play this?"
The staff/ledger lines will never change but where you play the notes on your fretboard will change with altered tunings. For example if you tune down to Eb you would play a low E at first fret on the E string, instead of hitting the open string.
By the way, this:
... is why I said earlier in the thread that tab deals with frets, and not with fingerings. If I had tabbed out my example, it would have just said "7" for those Es in the staff, but the tab wouldn't provide any guidance as to when to make the shift to the higher position and whether to play those Es with the first finger or fourth finger.
... is why I said earlier in the thread that tab deals with frets, and not with fingerings. If I had tabbed out my example, it would have just said "7" for those Es in the staff, but the tab wouldn't provide any guidance as to when to make the shift to the higher position and whether to play those Es with the first finger or fourth finger.
Writing trombone parts taught me all those high ledger lines. I look at it as intervals. Everybody knows that first line is C, so three lines is a fifth above that, or G, then the space above that is A, then B is the next line, so on and so forth...
Standard music notation shows pitches (not fingerings). So if you play in an alternate tuning, then you will have to figure out different fingerings to produce the notated pitch. For example if you tune your G string up to A, and the note is G on the 3rd ledger line, then you have to play it at the 10th fret (not the 12th fret any more).
TAB works the exact opposite. It shows you where to put your fingers, but not the pitch. If you try to play TAB in an altered tuning, it will sound at the wrong pitch.
Yes....but only when the clef is changed, altered tunings do not alter the ledger lines and spaces only the fingering options you may use.
For once Wiki shows it quite well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef
I recently decided it's high time I learned to read (again), so I've been playing with StudyBass.com's Clef Tutor Tool and have found it to be a much better way for me to learn than trying to remember notes cold from a page. You can set what you want to drill: spaces, lines, lines & spaces, upper ledger lines, lower ledger lines, complete note range.
Great help, thanks!
That's a cool tool! My reading is beyond rusty. I feel like this will be a good place to start.
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