Thoughts on the Eminence Legend BP122

[derridiandrift]

Here's a stupid question for the speaker builder guys. I'd like to build a 2x12 cab to use with my SVT-VR, which has a 4 and 2 ohm tap on the output transformer. I'm looking at the BP122 "Medium Sealed" design on the Eminence website and wondering if I can just double the internal volume in order to get the cab volume correct and have a 4ohm 2x12 cab.

 

[BadExample]

IMO that should work well.

 

[Ken Morgan]

If anyone is still interested in the speaker, I put one in one of those ebay cabs from 411live and it absolutely kills - the speaker acts like it was made specifically for the cab's volume, crossover, and horn. No shortage of thump, smooth, and articulate

 

[pie_man_25]

If anyone is still interested in the speaker, I put one in one of those ebay cabs from 411live and it absolutely kills - the speaker acts like it was made specifically for the cab's volume, crossover, and horn. No shortage of thump, smooth, and articulate

You got the cab with the tweeter and crossover too? Sounds cool, as much as people say they're a bad idea i keep looking at them.

 

[Ken Morgan]

'People' are the same ones who brought us New Coke, Solid State Bassman heads, Edsels, and MIDI driven accordions.

In my unit, the horn (not really a tweeter, but a true PA capable horn) is a quality piece, the crossover well built with variable volume control, etc. The cab is solidly built.

 

[derridiandrift]

'People' are the same ones who brought us New Coke, Solid State Bassman heads, Edsels, and MIDI driven accordions.

In my unit, the horn (not really a tweeter, but a true PA capable horn) is a quality piece, the crossover well built with variable volume control, etc. The cab is solidly built.

C

'People' are the same ones who brought us New Coke, Solid State Bassman heads, Edsels, and MIDI driven accordions.

In my unit, the horn (not really a tweeter, but a true PA capable horn) is a quality piece, the crossover well built with variable volume control, etc. The cab is solidly built.

Can you be more specific about source for this cab? I searched ebay for 411live and got nothing remotely relevant to speaker cabs.

 

[Ken Morgan]

1X12 Bass Guitar Empty Speaker Cabinet Black Carpet BG1X12HT | eBay

I messed up last time...should have been 440Live..sorry for the confusion

 

[BadExample]

You got the cab with the tweeter and crossover too? Sounds cool, as much as people say they're a bad idea i keep looking at them.

IDK why some think it's those are a bad idea.

 

[astack]

Subbed to see future users’ thoughts. It’s a good price and as mentioned a 12 explicitly designed for sealed — something that’s been missing in Eminence’s and most others’ off the shelf drivers. The high end roll off is a bummer for me. Although a pair of these and a good mid would likely be a really solid cab.

 

[BassikBrad]

For some of you cab. designers & speaker builders out there, I can highly recommend the Dayton Audio PA 310 12"
woofer. It requires a small enclosure, has high power handling & a better frequency response than nearly all the 12"
woofers out there. It also only costs $66.75!!! The only drawback (for wimps) is the magnet is 5lbs. I have two in a
small, shelf ported enclosure & goes easily down to 30Hz, is tight,has excellent transient attack & plays louder
than s..t. This is a grossly overlooked gem. You might never know what you're missing ! Blows away the 3012 LF.
If anyone is interested, I would be happy to provide cab. dimensions & advice.

 

[Rick James]

That Dayton is good for the money, but it's no 3012LF. The 3012LF has higher sensitivity, and between that and the much longer xmax it would take two of the Daytons to match one 3012LF down low. The Dayton isn't going down to 30 Hz either. In a maximally flat alignment, 1.2 cu ft net tuned to 39 Hz, it's down 15 dB at 30 Hz. Even in 2.5 cu ft it's down 12 dB. That's not bad, it's better than many drivers, but it's a long way from 'easily'. It's also weak in the upper mids compared to most Eminence twelves. It's better than the 3012LF in the mids, but the 3012LF isn't supposed to have strong mids.

 

[astack]

Ditto Rick James on those Daytons v 3012LF’s. For the price, they look like really nice drivers, especially if the 5mm xmax, extension to 4kHz, and power handling are real (or at least measured in a somewhat similar way to how other companies do). And they do work well in a pretty small cab, which is nice for the person lugging around 16lbs (!) drivers.

That said, they’re really bass shy in a sealed cab (~100Hz at -3dB), which these legends excel at (~55Hz at -3dB). So they’re a little off topic being compared to the OP.

Curious how similar these legends are to the berg NV#12’s irl. From the specs and modeling, they look to be darker, want a slightly larger box for similar extension, and are slightly less efficient.

 

[ThisBass]

Dayton 310-8 versus Eminence 3012LF for similar system (filter Q) alignment.

white chart shows the Dayton 310-8
yellow chart shows the Eminence 3012LF

Normalized amplitude

Customized amplitude response 1 Watt system input power

group delay charts are meant to demonstrate "similar" filter Q alignment for both modellings (its a good idea to compare apples to apples for both drivers).

Maximum acoustic power

That's an very impressing chart cause (nearly) twice of moved air volume of the 3012LF (Xmax 9.1mm) versus the 310-8 (Xmax 5mm) does REALLY NOT automatically result into higher (broadband) SPL.

 

[Rick James]

Using WinISD 0.7 I get an average of just a bit over 5 dB higher maximum SPL from the 3012LF in the all important 50-80 Hz passband. That's in the same cab with the same tuning, be it small, medium or large.

That said, they’re really bass shy in a sealed cab (~100Hz at -3dB), which these legends excel at (~55Hz at -3dB). So they’re a little off topic being compared to the OP.

The 3012LF isn't suited to a sealed cab either, for the same reason, Qts is much too low. Both are totally OT as far as a sealed cab goes, or the subject of the thread, the BP122.

 

[ThisBass]

Matching cab volume and tuning for both drivers 3012LF and PA310-8

Of course we are now on the way to compare apples to oranges cause filter Q does not match anymore which can be clearly seen on the basis of normalized amplitude response charts

As we (in this case) intend to compare apples to oranges right now the PA310-8 sucks by about -6dB SPL versus the 3012LF


And of course we can do lots of "delusion" games to get quite similar sad looking things.

Highish cab volume and lowish tuning for the 3012LF versus PA310-8

Now the 3012LF sucks by same about -6dB in the essential low end range.
Xmax means nothing but Xmax

 

[BassikBrad]

ThisBass. Thanks for this. What program are you using, looks more useful than Win ISD, which never seems to work
well at all when you put driver in enclosure. IME, using RTA Frequency response plots show different results & that is
why I was very disappointed with the results of the 3012LF compared to the PA310, considering the 3012 is 3 times the price &, costs less than the BP122. I used the same cabinet for one 3012 & then for two PA310, at the same volume listening level the PA310s went as low, were less woolly & much tighter sounding, this was more apparent with increased volume. Presumably because the roll surround on the PA310 is stiffer thus doing a better job of damping & therefore resulting in a lower Xmax result, proving that it means nothing in listening tests ! Plus the PA310 FR is smoother,
particularly above 2K & more extended resulting in more harmonics & a sweeter sound. The 3012 has a horrible
peak at 2K & then dives away.
It is not easy to build a perfect speaker but with the resources available, I know it is possible for them to build a
better driver for a lot less money. That is the reason why I responded to the BP122 OP & felt that we all need to look for other alternatives, have an open mind & hopefully encourage raising the bar.
The only final arbiter........listening.

 

[ThisBass]

ThisBass. Thanks for this. What program are you using, looks more useful than Win ISD, which never seems to work
well at all when you put driver in enclosure.

Sorry for beeing late here with my attempt to answer your question.
The program I mainly use is BassBox pro. You may want to charge a couple of bugs for a liecence but, this program is really worth every $cent. The program contains nearly unlimited driver data base which is frequently updated and once you have charged for a liecence you can download updates for free.
Furthermore cab tuning prediction and impedance response are (better) accurate than the charts provided by WinISD

IME, using RTA Frequency response plots show different results & that is
why I was very disappointed with the results of the 3012LF compared to the PA310, considering the 3012 is 3 times the price &, costs less than the BP122. I used the same cabinet for one 3012 & then for two PA310, at the same volume listening level the PA310s went as low, were less woolly & much tighter sounding, this was more apparent with increased volume. Presumably because the roll surround on the PA310 is stiffer thus doing a better job of damping & therefore resulting in a lower Xmax result, proving that it means nothing in listening tests ! Plus the PA310 FR is smoother,
particularly above 2K & more extended resulting in more harmonics & a sweeter sound. The 3012 has a horrible
peak at 2K & then dives away.

I think you are on the way to something.
Not directly addressed to you but, way too often there is an attempt to equate (by default) large Xmax with moved air volume thus improved SPL. It depends on the distinct design if large Xmax actually can improve SPL. With any design of ported cabs there is neccessarily (almost always) kind of a trade off decicision IF large Xmax can improve low end response OR large Xmax shall improve mechanical power handling in the range of 50..100Hz.

 

[BassikBrad]

Sorry for beeing late here with my attempt to answer your question.
The program I mainly use is BassBox pro. You may want to charge a couple of bugs for a liecence but, this program is really worth every $cent. The program contains nearly unlimited driver data base which is frequently updated and once you have charged for a liecence you can download updates for free.
Furthermore cab tuning prediction and impedance response are (better) accurate than the charts provided by WinISD



I think you are on the way to something.
Not directly addressed to you but, way too often there is an attempt to equate (by default) large Xmax with moved air volume thus improved SPL. It depends on the distinct design if large Xmax actually can improve SPL. With any design of ported cabs there is neccessarily (almost always) kind of a trade off decicision IF large Xmax can improve low end response OR large Xmax shall improve mechanical power handling in the range of 50..100Hz.

Thank you for the BassBox information, I remember now why I didn't get it, they don't have a Mac version. I suppose
I could load it into my old PC Windows XP, I was hoping they would produce a Mac version.
Apologies for delayed reply.