Thunderbird Club

[GBassNorth]

Argh!
Off TBird topic - my Daughter just grenaded the engine in her 2013 Dodge Dart (threw a timing belt on an interference engine). Any suggestions on a small nice new or used inexpensive and reliable SUV?

 

[rodv66]

Argh!
Off TBird topic - my Daughter just grenaded the engine in her 2013 Dodge Dart (threw a timing belt on an interference engine). Any suggestions on a small nice new or used inexpensive and reliable SUV?

Subaru, get a used forester, even a pre 2009 one

 

[ubernator]

Love the sound of 15's with the TBird but a 215 Peavey is gonna be heavy and quite possibly too much cabinet for practice and occasional mid size gigs. A better choice might be a 115 cab paired with a 210 or 212 cab. Then you could use either cab in practice and small gigs and add the second cab to larger venues.

They are pretty big and heavy that's for sure. The current bass player for one of my old bands sawed a mesa 215 into separate 115 cabs. And another friend years ago (rip) sawed his peavey 1820 into separate 210 and 118.

Not that you want to do that to a mint old peavey, but then again, it is just an old peavey, I can't believe they are 300-400 euro over there. Here they are $100-200 all day.

Personally, I would avoid those cabs, way too heavy and generally lower power handling. Not that the lower priced ashdowns are that great either...

If possible, avoid MDF cabs, lower end ashdowns tend to be MDF. It is heavier but eventually rots and crumbles if it gets moist. Plywood is the way to go. Pretty sure the older peaveys were plywood or solid wood, but not so sure about the Chinese peaveys.

 

[Bad bassist]

Same here, I can't believe the prices you pay in US for the gear you have. Different worlds :/
Yeah, besides being not so easy to find, the used gear tends to hold prices much more just because there's not so much stuff around. For example - used ValveKing heads(PV) come at 300€ minimum, new were sold for 420.

So you say a 215 is too much? Heavy doesn't bother me much, I'm a big guy.
I will power it with a Peavey Tour450, if I get one(it's already set with the seller for 200€ but you're never sure until you have it).
Another option is a used Peavey 410TX but has almost equal weight as 215, so not much better except for the price(200€). Both are 400W@4ohm.
But I believe I already love the idea of having a 215.

Alternative options - Ashdown Toneman 115 new(150€), Peavey 115 used 230€.

Any suggestions are desperately needed, tomorrow I need to make THE decision.

Thanks and sorry for the off topic(yet still related to the TB)

 

[kat888]

A better choice might be a 115 cab paired with a 210 or 212 cab. Then you could use either cab in practice and small gigs and add the second cab to larger venues.

Ssshhhhhh! Don't! In these parts, that's like saying 'Rumplestiltskin'.

If you are going to utilise cabs with different sized drivers, bear in mind 210 is roughly equivalent to 115 and that the powerhandling and (especially) efficiency should be matched. Even then the results may be less than stellar due to phase issues.

If @Bad bassist is prepared to schlep a 215, I salute him.

 

[TBird1958]

Argh!
Off TBird topic - my Daughter just grenaded the engine in her 2013 Dodge Dart (threw a timing belt on an interference engine). Any suggestions on a small nice new or used inexpensive and reliable SUV?

S U B A R U !

Accept no substitute!

 

[ubernator]

I got lucky and scored my valveking 50 II combo for $250 including footswitch and new power tubes, just some.scratchy pots is all. $600 new, usually $350+ used.

Which peavey 215 are you talking about?

It sounds like the peavey stuff you are looking at is not the older peavey stuff with the indestructible reputation. The later stuff is not as good. It might be more "modern" and higher power, but the quality was not as high.

Either way, it is still decent stuff, but personally I would go for 2 of the ashdown 115s for the same price, for reasons of modularity, and the fact that you can return them if you don't like them, and they will have warranties.

Also, I would probably take the 410 for 200 over the 215 for 300. 410 is a more articulate sound, and not lacking in the low end. But before you pull the trigger, look and see if there are any swr Goliath III cabs, muuccchhh better than the Peaveys

 

[ubernator]

A 4-10 cabinet has TWICE the speaker cone area of a 2-15 cabinet. Depending on the porting it will go as low or lower than a 2-15 and push more air.

I own four single 15 cabs and one 4-10 cab. The 4-10 gets gigged by itself or with a single infinite baffle 1-15 to add TOP...similar to what Billy Sheehan does. Bi amped of course.

I'd be happy to debate anyone who actually understands cabinet and speaker design but I doubt that's the case here.

I am not trying to debate, but 2x10 is a similar amount of cone area to 115, hence a 410 is similar to a 215. In fact, using the radius of 5 for 10s and 7.5 for 15s, a 210 is 157" area and 115 is almost 178" area.

215 is more cone area than 410 when dealing with simple math (geometry)

Other factors are at play. But simply comparing cone area, 215 is more than 410.

 

[kat888]

A 4-10 cabinet has TWICE the speaker cone area of a 2-15 cabinet. Depending on the porting it will go as low or lower than a 2-15 and push more air.

I own four single 15 cabs and one 4-10 cab. The 4-10 gets gigged by itself or with a single infinite baffle 1-15 to add TOP...similar to what Billy Sheehan does. Bi amped of course.

I'd be happy to debate anyone who actually understands cabinet and speaker design but I doubt that's the case here.

Once upon a time perhaps Carlo but in the intervening years all that I knew about speakers and cabs has been replaced by other stuff, and I have no need to learn it again.

 

[Bad bassist]

@ubernator
Found a used goliath3 for 300+shipping
I play stoner rock and need the Thunderbird to sound...deep and full. Do you think it's a better choice than the peaveys, esp the 215?

@Dadagoboi
The trouble to me(even if i understand a bit of physics) is having almost no exp with bass gear, so the theory surely brings insight but lacks the player's feel and feedback which is a bit more useful to me at this point.

 

[kat888]

There are many factors to consider - resonant freq, q, etc, also remember it's not just surface area but depth - what's the formula for calculating the volume of a cone?

I could fire up a spreadsheet to model the parameters but then again I could catch up on my sleep and let the professionals get on with it.

 

[kat888]

Stoner? Deffo 15s then, innit?

 

[ubernator]

Once upon a time perhaps Carlo but in the intervening years all that I knew about speakers and cabs has been replaced by other stuff, and I have no need to learn it again.

@ubernator
Found a used goliath3 for 300+shipping
I play stoner rock and need the Thunderbird to sound...deep and full. Do you think it's a better choice than the peaveys, esp the 215?

@Dadagoboi
The trouble to me(even if i understand a bit of physics) is having almost no exp with bass gear, so the theory surely brings insight but lacks the player's feel and feedback which is a bit more useful to me at this point.

Depends on the Goliath III. If it is made in sylmar ca or sun valley ca, and has the original speakers, or properly reconed speakers, then you would be hard pressed to find a better 410 other than the slightly more robust Eden d410xlt.

Once fender started making the.cabs (corona ca, or mexico) and using eminence drivers the quality dropped a bit, but even those were still good cabinets. Pre fender are the ones to get if you can. But once aftermarket drivers are put in, they aren't quite the same.

It is extremely fat sounding, the low end response on those is like a subwoofer, but much tighter.

It blows away all the cabs you have been looking at

 

[ubernator]

Stoner? Deffo 15s then, innit?

Last.stoner band I saw was using 10s. And I think the qotsa guy used ampeg 810s

 

[ubernator]

@ubernator
Found a used goliath3 for 300+shipping
I play stoner rock and need the Thunderbird to sound...deep and full. Do you think it's a better choice than the peaveys, esp the 215?

@Dadagoboi
The trouble to me(even if i understand a bit of physics) is having almost no exp with bass gear, so the theory surely brings insight but lacks the player's feel and feedback which is a bit more useful to me at this point.

Some background info on the swr Goliath 410 cabs.

These were the first "hi fi" 410 cabs with tweeters (you can turn them off of course), and extended frequency response. The original was made by David nordschow (eden) so there is some relation to the later eden cabs. The Goliath was rear ported and an eden design, the Goliath II was made by swr with higher powered speakers and a beefier grille. At that time eden started making the David series cabinets, the d410t being essentially the same as an upgraded original Goliath. Get it? David and Goliath hahah by then there was probably some rivalry.

The Goliath III was upgraded to front slot porting and even more powerful speakers. Eden came out with the d410xlt which had slot ports on top and bottom, and pushed a tad more low end than the Goliath III, but at the same eq settings, the Goliath was a little punchier.

Basically, all modern 410s are copies of the Goliath in some form.

Fender killed SWR, Marshall now owns Eden, and David nordschow now has DNA amps.

Grab an swr Goliath III, as long as it is pre fender and still on the original speakers, it is a hard cab to beat for $300

 

[Count Bassie]

It's on my list of 'to-explore' genres right after disco (just, kidding)

I've dabbled...

Disco is totally a gas. There are more fun, funky, overlooked bass lines in disco than any other genre... in my oft-humbled opinion.

 

[Count Bassie]

Argh!
Off TBird topic - my Daughter just grenaded the engine in her 2013 Dodge Dart (threw a timing belt on an interference engine). Any suggestions on a small nice new or used inexpensive and reliable SUV?

Caravans are often seen hauling tools and laden with ladders around towns like ours. They are robust little buggers and tend to last. Minivans are generally front wheel drive, pretty good in weather. There's a reason more moms drive minivans...

 

[Count Bassie]

Same here, I can't believe the prices you pay in US for the gear you have. Different worlds :/
Yeah, besides being not so easy to find, the used gear tends to hold prices much more just because there's not so much stuff around. For example - used ValveKing heads(PV) come at 300€ minimum, new were sold for 420.

So you say a 215 is too much? Heavy doesn't bother me much, I'm a big guy.
I will power it with a Peavey Tour450, if I get one(it's already set with the seller for 200€ but you're never sure until you have it).
Another option is a used Peavey 410TX but has almost equal weight as 215, so not much better except for the price(200€). Both are 400W@4ohm.
But I believe I already love the idea of having a 215.

Alternative options - Ashdown Toneman 115 new(150€), Peavey 115 used 230€.

Any suggestions are desperately needed, tomorrow I need to make THE decision.

Thanks and sorry for the off topic(yet still related to the TB)

A 215 is a classic. The Peavey, deep or shallower model, is a big'n, but sounds great. If you're not playing jazz in very small rooms, oand don't have to park 40 ft from your house across a short stretch of moorland, it's good fun.

 

[Larry V]

Argh!
Off TBird topic - my Daughter just grenaded the engine in her 2013 Dodge Dart (threw a timing belt on an interference engine). Any suggestions on a small nice new or used inexpensive and reliable SUV?

A used Chevy Equinox makes for a good smaller SUV. I'm GM biased of course but lots of folks I know drive them for years and years.

 

[GBassNorth]

Could be just my ears and imagination but every 15" or dual 15" cab I've ever owned or played seemed to have two drawbacks compared to 210 or 410 cabs I've played. The 15" cabs seemed to have a significant off axis tone/volume change (a real pain in the butt in a practice room where you might be 90 degrees from the cab) and although the 15's had a nice bottom end they didn't seem to have as much gut or chest punch as the 10's.

All that said, I never found a 410 cab that was to my liking from a transport standpoint. The cab I ended up with as my main big gig rig is a Bergantino NV610, mostly because of the cool built in tilt back transport system and the Ampeg Fridge sound levels.