Thunderbird Club

[Count Bassie]

I know that our club is devoted to the almighty Thunderbird but from time to time folks mention their amps too. So, I am hoping that a query about bass amp speakers is fair game. I am familiar with the usual suspects, when it comes to brands of decent guitar amp speakers: Celestians, Eminence, Jensen, Weber, Scumback and Warehouse. New tubes and speaker swaps seem to be the go-to mods on a guitar amp. But I don't see as much written about this, with regards to bass amplification. So, I am curious as to this group's opinions on the best brand of bass amp speakers. I could search the gen-pop threads but I want to hear what the "cool kids" think (including why bass players might not be as obsessed with amp mods or why this is a lame question).

Right now I have an old, badly mistreated Sunn 215S loaded with a pair of just about NOS Sunn SPL branded "JBL copies". The cab sounds hugely deep and big with an almost rubbery sonic texture to it. It's a very interesting and particular sound. I think I like it. I look forward to taking it out to a few gigs just to get a line on what it really "is" to my ear.

I've also got a Peavey 810, which is not only a big blunt weapon but is very tight and concise at lower volumes.

I've had a mess of speakers and cabs, each has been serviceable to outstanding on it's own right. My favorite cab may have been an SWR Henry the 8x8... But that was a cover band/working rig, and my guts have never been totally expressed by a well-behaved sonic signature, and I've been in that mode for a long time now. I'm just getting into breaking out of it once again, after many years. I'll let you know if I learn anything interesting.

 

[Stevis]

That is not a question with a simple answer, perhaps if you said which cabinet you were thinking about new drivers for, or.vintage ones. It is very important to match the cabinet volume and tune the ports if any. For the specific speaker.

Nowadays eminence is the go to for non proprietary boutique high end cab.driver replacement/upgrade. Give them your cab specs and they will match the best speaker for it.

For.brands with really good speakers,.that are unavailable anymore, such as pre fender swr, and pre Marshall eden, getting the speakers reconed is the way to go, if you can find a place that has recone kits for them still.

jBL and EV are 2 others that are good in the bass/sound reinforcement area. And then higher end companies like faital and others....

Good point. I think my question was sparked in part by how most amp listings don't mention the brand, while mostly focusing on the "special sauce" (e.g., "the lightweight neodymium ceramic driver"). I looked at listings on MF.com, for Ampeg, Markbass and Aguilar. They don't mention the brand of speaker. This seems quite different than marketing higher end guitar amps.

Similarly, I don't see speaker companies pushing their bass drivers as replacements in the same way we see them go after guitarists. I would think tone would matter to both, in much the same way we covet good pickups.

 

[ubernator]

Good point. I think my question was sparked in part by how most amp listings don't mention the brand, while mostly focusing on the "special sauce" (e.g., "the lightweight neodymium ceramic driver"). I looked at listings on MF.com, for Ampeg, Markbass and Aguilar. They don't mention the brand of speaker. This seems quite different than marketing higher end guitar amps.

Similarly, I don't see speaker companies pushing their bass drivers as replacements in the same way we see them go after guitarists. I would think tone would matter to both, in much the same way we covet good pickups.

Many use eminence, but they custom order oem exclusively. Fender and ampeg are 2 perfect examples. My current daily driver rig is a rumble 200 115 combo and compact 112 bottom cab. The whole 112 is made in eminence China factory, and the speaker in the 15 combo is also a fender spec eminence driver. Very happy with these.

The other cabs I have left are both SWR Goliath 410s, the first is the 1998 pebble grille Goliath III that I bought new, the other being a Goliath II I got recently for a steal to cover for my also 1998 new son of Bertha, one of the best 115 cabs ever, which was stolen along with Goliath II Jr 210 , my head rack (redface bass350, vintage 7025 USA tube, wireless, tuner, mic and cables in back), and my workingman's 10 + 110t mini stack, and much more, I'm only mentioning the bass stuff).

I have also had eden 210 and 410 cabs which were a little nicer, the 210xlt especially, and the 410xlt pushed a little bit more lows than Goliath III, but the Goliath cut through in the mids a tad better. I started on peavey cabs, the 1516 was too small, but the 1810 fit the bill nicely with the bass350. I unloaded that when I got the Goliath Bertha stack.

Shrimp and potatoes, boil it broil it grille it sautee it, BBQ it..... Shrimp sandwich

 

[Haji]

I know that our club is devoted to the almighty Thunderbird but from time to time folks mention their amps too. So, I am hoping that a query about bass amp speakers is fair game. I am familiar with the usual suspects, when it comes to brands of decent guitar amp speakers: Celestians, Eminence, Jensen, Weber, Scumback and Warehouse. New tubes and speaker swaps seem to be the go-to mods on a guitar amp. But I don't see as much written about this, with regards to bass amplification. So, I am curious as to this group's opinions on the best brand of bass amp speakers. I could search the gen-pop threads but I want to hear what the "cool kids" think (including why bass players might not be as obsessed with amp mods or why this is a lame question).

Guitar players outnumber bassists be a sizable number. It therefore pays to market to their esoterica. They've always been a good source of customers chasing that 2% difference that nobody in their right mind can hear. Most bassists realize that nobody cares about how the bass sounds, only that it's there or not. Most of us don't get wrapped around the axle about the tiny differences, unless there really is a difference in tone that can be heard due to the style of music. For the most part, bass players just don't care that much.

 

[EdO.]

Guitar players outnumber bassists be a sizable number. It therefore pays to market to their esoterica. They've always been a good source of customers chasing that 2% difference that nobody in their right mind can hear. Most bassists realize that nobody cares about how the bass sounds, only that it's there or not. Most of us don't get wrapped around the axle about the tiny differences, unless there really is a difference in tone that can be heard due to the style of music. For the most part, bass players just don't care that much.

Is it that or is it that we realize that the vast majority of the audience simply can't tell the difference anyway so we don't waste effort worrying about it?

 

[Stevis]

Guitar players outnumber bassists be a sizable number. It therefore pays to market to their esoterica. They've always been a good source of customers chasing that 2% difference that nobody in their right mind can hear. Most bassists realize that nobody cares about how the bass sounds, only that it's there or not. Most of us don't get wrapped around the axle about the tiny differences, unless there really is a difference in tone that can be heard due to the style of music. For the most part, bass players just don't care that much.

I agree with you on the differences in market size (# of guitarists vs. bassists). Although, I am not sure that bassists can do the "superior dance," when it comes to being immune to a Quixotic quest for tone, as we still: 1) buy aftermarket pickups; 2) buy aftermarket bridges; and 3) worry about whether our tone pots are 250k vs 500k (with orange drop caps for good measure).

And if I drop $500+ on a 1 x 12 cab, shouldn't I care what's in it? Not being contentious - just thinking out loud.

 

[Korladis]

I know that our club is devoted to the almighty Thunderbird but from time to time folks mention their amps too. So, I am hoping that a query about bass amp speakers is fair game. I am familiar with the usual suspects, when it comes to brands of decent guitar amp speakers: Celestians, Eminence, Jensen, Weber, Scumback and Warehouse. New tubes and speaker swaps seem to be the go-to mods on a guitar amp. But I don't see as much written about this, with regards to bass amplification. So, I am curious as to this group's opinions on the best brand of bass amp speakers. I could search the gen-pop threads but I want to hear what the "cool kids" think (including why bass players might not be as obsessed with amp mods or why this is a lame question).

I think partly because bass cabs are a bit more complex in design, and often built around a particular driver, so there's less reason to swap. Especially with ported cabs.

That said, Faital 15PR400s are pretty adaptable, it seems. That's what I have in my 2000S 2x15. Previously I was using EV 15B drivers, but I was afraid of damaging them with too much low end.

As far as tubes, I use Sovteks in my D-180. Relatively sturdy and not very expensive.

 

[Korladis]

Good point. I think my question was sparked in part by how most amp listings don't mention the brand, while mostly focusing on the "special sauce" (e.g., "the lightweight neodymium ceramic driver"). I looked at listings on MF.com, for Ampeg, Markbass and Aguilar. They don't mention the brand of speaker. This seems quite different than marketing higher end guitar amps.

Similarly, I don't see speaker companies pushing their bass drivers as replacements in the same way we see them go after guitarists. I would think tone would matter to both, in much the same way we covet good pickups.

Most of the bigger companies use proprietary designs. And as I mentioned, lots of bass cabs, if they're well designed, are designed around the parameters of a specific driver. So swapping is often counterproductive.

Because of this, and because there isn't a standardized bass cab design (whereas with guitar there's the 4x12), speaker companies can't really market drivers that are 'universal' replacements, as depending on the box design, they might sound glorious in one cab, but sound like ass in a different one.

Guitar players outnumber bassists be a sizable number. It therefore pays to market to their esoterica. They've always been a good source of customers chasing that 2% difference that nobody in their right mind can hear. Most bassists realize that nobody cares about how the bass sounds, only that it's there or not. Most of us don't get wrapped around the axle about the tiny differences, unless there really is a difference in tone that can be heard due to the style of music. For the most part, bass players just don't care that much.

I care. Though not enough to object to sharing cabs with other bassists if someone else is bringing an 810.

I mean, I also have thunderbuckers wired in series in my Epiphone as well as a Babicz bridge, and a custom fuzz pedal, and so on. So I don't think bassists are immune from tone chasing.

Is it that or is it that we realize that the vast majority of the audience simply can't tell the difference anyway so we don't waste effort worrying about it?

I don't give a damn what the audience can tell the difference between. If I can, that's enough.

 

[BklynKen]

I turned 50 in 2013 and my wife bought me the Gibson 50th Anniversary Thunderbird. Pretty cool coincidence that I was born the same year as my favorite bass

Nice! Best I could do like that was rereading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books when I turned 42.

 

[JIO]

Nice! Best I could do like that was rereading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy books when I turned 42.

I love those books! The BBC TV version was good too but the later US movie version was pathetic.

 

[BklynKen]

I love those books! The BBC TV version was good too but the later US movie version was pathetic.

Yeah, those books are just so excellent. There's really a Douglas Adams quote for so many things. But I really did learn to appreciate the movie after watching the DVD with the commentary. Try it. You'll see and learn things that you never noticed.

 

[kat888]

As has been mentioned, swapping out bass speakers in a tuned cabinet is a whole different barrel of piranha to changing over a couple of guitar speakers in an open back combo. A long time ago, I replaced the generic 12" guitar speakers in an AC30 clone with Celestions and it made a big difference. It's the law of diminishing returns - if you start out with quality speakers, you'll notice less difference.

If you are really interested in bass cab design Eminence have an application where you specify the driver name (or enter the parameters for non-Eminence speakers) and it will give you the required internal volume and port specs.

Or you could just buy an Ampeg SVT212AV (which has Eminence drivers btw).

 

[hillerup]

YES PLEASE

I'll keep that in mind. Wouldn't mind having both for awhile and A/B them... if I find and Epi for cheap. I've heard a lot of good things about the Epi Pro V's.

Can't be about the electronics....

The bass in itself is nice and well built, and has the raised centertop and neckthrough neck - But the electroncs are just not very good and quite noisy.

 

[Klondike]

I learned a long time ago that I am far better off buying something of desent quality then dont f&ck with it. The alternative I always screw it up.

 

[RedVee]

Since price is no object, it would be this one...

26 frets, 1-3/4" nut, 16mm bridge spacing.

Just gotta sell more Cataldos.

You could build your own?

So are we considering Buzzards as being birds of a feather with Thunderbirds?

I must be mellowing - I think that looks pretty ok. First time I saw a pic of one...
I didn't.

 

[hillerup]

I agree with you on the differences in market size (# of guitarists vs. bassists). Although, I am not sure that bassists can do the "superior dance," when it comes to being immune to a Quixotic quest for tone, as we still: 1) buy aftermarket pickups; 2) buy aftermarket bridges; and 3) worry about whether our tone pots are 250k vs 500k (with orange drop caps for good measure).

And if I drop $500+ on a 1 x 12 cab, shouldn't I care what's in it? Not being contentious - just thinking out loud.

Maybe it's just me, or I'm totally out of date when it comes to bass cabinets - But a 1 x 12 cab, isn't that pretty underpowered?

Back in the day when I used to have a rig, I had a Marshall stack with two 4 x 12 cabs which was pretty/too loud for most places, so I usually only brought out one 4 x12 cab when I gigged, which was more than enough for most places.

Couldn't imagine only bringing a 1 x 12 cab for a show - Wouldn't be enough and would look kinda "small" on stage...

 

[hillerup]

I love those books! The BBC TV version was good too but the later US movie version was pathetic.

Yep, nothing good about that movie - Maybe except Marvin's voice by Alan Rickman...

 

[hillerup]

You could build your own?

So are we considering Buzzards as being birds of a feather with Thunderbirds?

I must be mellowing - I think that looks pretty ok. First time I saw a pic of one...
I didn't.

They are kinda cool in a disturbed way... However I do think the headstocks are a bit too big - could very well be downscaled ever so slightly.

 

[kat888]

Maybe it's just me, or I'm totally out of date when it comes to bass cabinets - But a 1 x 12 cab, isn't that pretty underpowered?

Back in the day when I used to have a rig, I had a Marshall stack with two 4 x 12 cabs which was pretty/too loud for most places, so I usually only brought out one 4 x12 cab when I gigged, which was more than enough for most places.

Couldn't imagine only bringing a 1 x 12 cab for a show - Wouldn't be enough and would look kinda "small" on stage...

Yeah, 212 or 410 in half-fridge format as a minimum.

 

[Dadagoboi]

You could build your own?

So are we considering Buzzards as being birds of a feather with Thunderbirds?

I must be mellowing - I think that looks pretty ok. First time I saw a pic of one...
I didn't.

It's full carbon fiber, above my pay grade. That's actually the third version of the Buzzard. The first was made by Warwick in 1986, all wood, then built by Warwick with four and 8 string CF necks by Modulus. Then Modulus built some complete CF basses (I think). Finally, Status built the ultimate version. Full CF, natural weave black. JAE had six of them in Las Vegas when he died, 4-four strings and 2-8s.

So these were the basses he played for sixteen years.

I once thought the headstock was really over the top, now I think it's just right!