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Thunderbird Club
- Thread starter TBird1958
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- club thunderbird
- Jul 1, 2005
- 4,292
- 21,946
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- CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
Those were Entwistle's specs. Pretty much equal string spacing from fret one to 26. Flat phenolic fretboard with zero relief and no adjustable truss rod on the original bolt on 'Buzzard 2'. Status now calls them B2 and they're 19mm bridge spacing with trussrods. They don't do 16mm bridges these days.
I turned 50 in 2013 and my wife bought me the Gibson 50th Anniversary Thunderbird. Pretty cool coincidence that I was born the same year as my favorite bass
Are you sure about that? JAE moved the wood original Buzzard (designed by JAE) to Status from Warwick...which was where he went after becoming disenchanted with Alembic. That's my understanding.
Even from Alembic the connection is tenuous:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
This is the last Buzzard design, the collaboration with Status and JAE for the punters. Before and after px after a 'restoration'. Basswood body with bolt on carbon neck. Same electronics as the full carbon Buzzard which Status had to discontinue when Warwick sued right after JAE died. They were too embarrassed to sue while he was alive.
JAE can be seen playing 'Baba O'Reilly' on this model in a 2002 documentary on the making of 'Who's Next'. It's now sold as the Buzzard Bass 2 .
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Actually, while John was still alive and playing the Buzzard Bass he had contacted Alembic several times to have them build a Buzzard copy for him. Alembic declined to copy the Buzzard (Susan Wickersham didn't like the shape of the bass) but they agreed to design an Alembic inspired by the Buzzard that would hopefully be Buzzard enough to satisfy John and yet Alembic enough to satisfy Susan. As the bass was being designed for John he passed away, Alembic went on with the build for another customer and called it the Dragon Wing.
Quote from Mica (Susan's daughter at Alembic)...
"Oliver is right, we were working on the design, but never got a chance to show the drawings to JE. ... My mom declined several times JE's request to make a replica of the Buzzard bass. She just really doesn't dig that shape at all. The idea of the Dragon Wing is to make a bass that was Buzzard enough for John and Alembic enough for Susan."
A couple of Buzzard owners also have the Dragon Wing in their collections. It's generally viewed as a legitimate progression in the design of the Buzzard as is the Buzzard Bass II. Because John passed away (RIP) before taking delivery of the bass we'll never know if he would have adopted it in place of the Buzzard or not, but one thing is certain, John asked Alembic for a Buzzard build and Alembic came up with this design.
You can read more here... Link Removed
And here... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
And here... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
And of course some Dragon Wing pics ...
And a Buzzard pic...
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- Jul 1, 2005
- 4,292
- 21,946
- 80
- Disclosures
- CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
I'd have to see some proof that JAE had any interest in Dragon Wing except for Alembic's hints. And even if he did there's no guarantee he would have approved it. The RD was supposed to be his signature model from Gibson but he didn't like it...that's well documented in Bass Culture.. Dragon Wing not so much.Actually, while John was still alive and playing the Buzzard Bass he had contacted Alembic several times to have them build a Buzzard copy for him. Alembic declined to copy the Buzzard (Susan Wickersham didn't like the shape of the bass) but they agreed to design an Alembic inspired by the Buzzard that would hopefully be Buzzard enough to satisfy John and yet Alembic enough to satisfy Susan. As the bass was being designed for John he passed away, Alembic went on with the build for another customer and called it the Dragon Wing.
Quote from Mica (Susan's daughter at Alembic)...
"Oliver is right, we were working on the design, but never got a chance to show the drawings to JE. ... My mom declined several times JE's request to make a replica of the Buzzard bass. She just really doesn't dig that shape at all. The idea of the Dragon Wing is to make a bass that was Buzzard enough for John and Alembic enough for Susan."
A couple of Buzzard owners also have the Dragon Wing in their collections. It's generally viewed as a legitimate progression in the design of the Buzzard as is the Buzzard Bass II. Because John passed away (RIP) before taking delivery of the bass we'll never know if he would have adopted it in place of the Buzzard or not, but one thing is certain, John asked Alembic for a Buzzard build and Alembic came up with this design.
You can read more here... Link Removed
And here... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
And here... [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
And of course some Deagon Wing pics ...
And a Buzzard pic...
JAE had a debacle at Live Aid with an Exploiter in '84 that was the last straw He get rid of all his Exploiters. He also complained he could never get the necks to stay straight...hard to believe he'd return to wood with a trussrod after he'd gone full CF.
I'm not saying it's impossible. Townshend agreed to the last tour only because Johnwas $2,000,000 in debt and selling so many of his basses that he'd driven the value of a 'JAE owned' bass down. Again, well documented., so maybe he was talking to Alembic. The only other stuff I can find that links him is hearsay from Alembic fanboys wanting to believe...or Ebay/Reverb listings.
If John Enwistle was involved, why doesn't Alembic just come out and say it instead of hinting at "Roger" and "John"? That's typical con artist stuff.
Hey all. Quick question. Are there two different Supertone 3 point bridges in black? A flat and a gloss or is it just the way they look in pictures and they are all the same? Thanks in advance.
Wasnt intending to be sanctimonious, sorry if it came through in any negative manner.
A 'reversed' hs on a T-bird actually follows a perverted kind of logic because of how T-birds are referred to. As someone who respects logic and proper wordage, I am befuddled about the whole reversed/non-reversed monikers they were saddled with. As in, usual logic would start with the original T-bird design being the unique design all on its own, and the later 60's re-designed model that followed (according to logic) would be 'reverse' of the original. But no... the original was (later mind you) dubbed 'reverse', as in - reverse of what? As much as it was later referred to as a reverse of a (Fender Jaguar? - a stretch) in order to support a law suite by Fender (really f-'d in my opinion - as if Fender had any real competition from anyone in the early 60's in the bass dept) - the T-bird was clearly head & shoulders a unique design and not reverse of anything Fender or otherwise. So in retrospect, it's actually perverted to say the original T-bird is 'reverse'. A '63-'65 T-bird is the original design, and it was reversed in the later 60's. There, I said it and with logic as my sword, it has been defended!(I feel better now...)
I think the original was "reverse" because many basses before it (Fenders for one) had a long upper horn, while it had a long lower horn. Nothing more complicated than that.
My Hamer leans that way for a minimally tapered string spacing from nut to saddles... it is tapered, but much less than the Fender Jazz it cops from, and maybe somewhat less than my 'Bird too. Even less taper would suit me- I'd like to try one of those someday.
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This is a TBird forum so I'm not going to bog the group down in off topic facts, conjecture and hearsay. If a top spokesperson for the Alembic company (Mica) put in writing (which she did, and I quoted in my post) that they were asked by JAE to build a Buzzard bass for him and they declined but instead designed a bass that they hoped would be equally acceptable to him, that's good enough for me. The fact that he passed away before seeing the design just adds to the mystique and speculation about the Dragon Wing.
Would John have agreed with the design or build, we'll never know. Was it odd that he would go back to Alembic for a custom build after his complaints about the Alembic power supply and wood vs graphite stability issues? Maybe, but he was a avid buyer of everything bass and his collection had a lot more wood based basses than graphite ones. Would he have used the Alembic in place of the Buzzard? I'd speculate he wouldn't unless it was equal or better in playability and sound.
So as opposed to the two of us trying to figure out what was running through John's head before he passed away I'll just hang my hat on Mica's words and enjoy the basses I have while I continue to build the collection I want. That's kinda what Talkbass is all about.
Probably not man, seems we all go with the upside here, given the choice! Hey, it's why I'm still allowed here...
- Jul 1, 2005
- 4,292
- 21,946
- 80
- Disclosures
- CataldoBasses: Designer/Builder ThunderBuckerPickups:Consultant
The one I worked on was 97, frets were worn but it played effortlessly...and it makes a lot of sense to me to keep spacing the same top to bottom.
I would happily raise a beer with you. You make me chuckle on a regular basis.
And with that said I am finnaly caught up. Wheeww took me hours of readding. In the end I had to read through about 350 posts!
There will be a quiz tomorrow!
I think it's just one for two-bolt and one for three-bolt bridges, no? Depending on which Gibson you have. Maybe what you're seeing is the chrome one this looks really dark in the photo? Mine is definitely matte.
Agreed. The hook is in just go with it. You have GAS. I have GAS. We have GAS. There are worse things to be addicted to.
Thanks for the reply. I don't have a Gibson. I have an Epi Classic Pro I want to change the bridge on and was just looking to be sure I ordered the right Hipshot 3 point. Some of the black look glossier than some of the others. Must just be the photos.
