Thunderbird Club

[RedVee]

This is a great analysis, and it's a pretty good road map of what Gibson could do if they wanted to. How much does it really cost to offer more than one color for example, anyway? It couldn't be that much.

One last thing. Until Henry J. goes away, I don't see anything good happening.

On the colour issue. It beats me - they seem to have plenty of colours for guitars. Surely it's just using more of the colours you already have?

Another way of looking at this is Gibson are flat out building guitars, while demand for their basses is very small. Why not farm bass production out to Epiphone and let them use Gibson pickups etc? Bird players are a discerning crowd and know Epis are good ... and there enough 2nd hand Gibsons floating around to satisfy those who really want the label or have the scratch for a vintage Bird.

This ^ but I'll add...

I think, hope?, that some people will always want the Gibson label version. Is it really that much for an annual limited run of Gibson label versions? Different colour, maybe it's a custom shop build. Upgraded 'something' for it. Keep production a tad lower than anticipated demand.

If people want to buy for extra, shouldn't Gibson be happy to accomodate them?

 

[Stevis]

Anyone here designed, manufactured or marketed a product in the USA or elsewhere successfully? We seem to have quite a few experts on the subject...MBAs maybe?

I have not made or marketed a product. Nor do I have an MBA among my other degrees. But I will do my best to cobble together a response.

I would respectfully argue that the criteria you've outlined are not necessary to do a comparison and contrast between the offerings of two brands of products. Likewise, the conditions you mentioned don't seem to preclude a fan of a particular brand, who might subequently want to express frustration because they believe (rightly or wrongly) it is not reaching its potential. Similarly, one doesn't need to have been in the NFL to play Monday-morning QB (and they can even get paid to be on TV or radio for doing it). So, I guess that you are bound to find the same on a listserv about music and musical instruments: [tweet] "Fake music instrument business news! Failing @TB.com. Sad! Bad!"

"Make Gibson Basses Great Again!"

[The last part is a parody and is not meant as a comment on TB].

 

[Gluvhand]

More like sinking ship.

Maybe we can right the boat.

Someone has to, damn it!

 

[kat888]

If a fairy appeared, opened their coat and offered me my choice from an array of 60s TBirds, of course I'd pick both a Reverse and a Non-reverse. That likelihood aside, or outside of a lottery win, I can't imagine ever buying a Gibson branded TBird.

 

[Dadagoboi]

So the criteria for voicing an opinion is having done it? The Internet laughs at you.

And my response to the internet is , "Kiss my A**".

Yes I have, but not a musical instrument.

Enlighten me.

 

[Stevis]

Exactly the point I was getting at - there is a wide price gulf between Epiphone and Gibson. With a somewhat tightened price difference, you may b e able to attract aspirational buyers to the higher margin brand.




To be clear, they should not lower the quality of the Epiphone product.

Also note that Epiphone offers a variety of price points, ranging from less expensive bolt-on to neck thru. If the neck thru Epiphones were $200 more and branded Gibson, they could sell as well or better than the Epiphone. I suspect that the market could be segmented - sell the same bass with both an Epiphone and a Gibson label and allow the brand conscious to spend extra (and I would be one that likely would spend the extra).

Yes to both. I did not mean to imply that they should change Epi quality.

 

[Gluvhand]

And my response is , "Kiss my A**".


Enlighten me.

Stick with "inventing". Customer Relations isn't your strong suit.

 

[PillO]

Yes I have, but not a musical instrument.

Enlighten me.

I will not post any details on a public forum. Suffice it to say a global product.

Yes to both. I did not mean to imply that they should change Epi quality.

I did not mean to imply that you suggested a change in quality; just wanted to be absolutely clear that the current quality of the Epiphone line is critical to its success.

 

[Dadagoboi]

I have not made or marketed a product. Nor do I have an MBA among my other degrees. But I will do my best to cobble together a response.

I would respectfully argue that the criteria you've outlined are not necessary to do a comparison and contrast between the offerings of two brands of products.

I've made no comment on what Gibson should do.

I find it amusing that others who are as unqualified as I am think they have the solution for digging Gibson out of their close to a $400,000,000 hole.

 

[redstrand]

Buy a Cataldo and be done with it. Gibson had their chance

 

[Klondike]

Anyone here designed, manufactured or marketed a product in the USA or elsewhere successfully? We seem to have quite a few experts on the subject...MBAs maybe?

no need or room for a negative nellie.

 

[Dadagoboi]

Buy a Cataldo and be done with it. Gibson had their chance

I'd say just be happy with what you can afford, no matter what name is on it. Or build your own.

 

[redstrand]

Yep, believe me you've inspired me and with so many great choices out there...plug in and rock out!

 

[bylar13]

Well, I just bought a Heritage Cherry t-bird and if it works/plays as well as my sunburst 2006, a quick hardware swap and the sunburst will go up for sale. I have never been a fan of burst finishes. Seems strange to offer only one finish option on a flagship model (for basses anyway).

 

[Dadagoboi]

Customer Relations isn't your strong suit.

They're good enough to buy me these...

 

[Gluvhand]

They're good enough to buy me these...

A sense of humor and some humility would serve you well.

 

[Stevis]

No and I don't think I said that you did. And apologies if I did mischaracterize it.

But I think your earlier post came off as a bit judgemental. There would not be much content on here if people needed certain backgrounds to write about things. For example, there are plenty of posts about pickups, by people - most of whom - have not trained in electronics. There are also list members, who suggest inserting a combination of glue, toothpicks (and a dab of water) into our bass guitars, while not all being luthiers. I read it and/or move onto the next post.

It is not my style to take swipes at people and that is not the tenor of this particular list, with all its bright and good folks (novice to expert). It is what makes us different from Gen Pop (to borrow from @kat888). I was responding to an earlier post about Fenders and threw in a few innocuous observations about Gibson. So, I guess I got a little prickly at that particular post of yours (as I typically enjoy most others that you make, given your insights from years of making AND playing basses). The fun of this group is that it is inclusive, respectful and playful - a judgement free/no condescension zone (full of rainbows AND butt bows).

 

[GBassNorth]

I've made no comment on what Gibson should do.

I find it amusing that others who are as unqualified as I am think they have the solution for digging Gibson out of their close to a $400,000,000 hole.

And on the lighter side...
How do you become a millionaire managing a Guitar company?
It's easy, just start with $401 million and buy the Gibson Co.

Seriously, I'd be interested to hear if the U.S. Market for electric guitars and basses has changed significantly since its inception in the 1950's and 1960's. What was the target demographic for first time electric guitar/bass purchasers then vs now. And what was the target saturation (number of units per user) of those purchasers vs today's buyers.

It's totally just an observation and not scientific by any stretch but it looks to me like fewer young people (per capita) are getting into electric guitar/bass purchases today vs 50 years ago but many older buyers are purchasing larger quantities of units vs what they were 50 years ago. If those observations are correct it doesn't bode well for the long term health of the industry. It almost implies that current product consumption is being driven by a customer base that cannot sustain their purchase levels for much longer (maybe 10 or 15 years tops) while at the same time there is not a new wave of buyers following close behind. That's called a bubble, and it's usually not good for companies that don't have a rock solid financial foundation.

 

[Dadagoboi]

A sense of humor and some humility would serve you well.

I've had a bad attitude for over 70 years, I don't see that changing anytime soon...nor my sense of humor.

 

[Dadagoboi]

And on the lighter side...
How do you become a millionaire managing a Guitar company?
It's easy, just start with $401 million and buy the Gibson Co.

Seriously, I'd be interested to hear if the U.S. Market for electric guitars and basses has changed significantly since its inception in the 1950's and 1960's. What was the target demographic for first time electric guitar/bass purchasers then vs now. And what was the target saturation (number of units per user) of those purchasers vs today's buyers.

It's totally just an observation and not scientific by any stretch but it looks to me like fewer young people (per capita) are getting into electric guitar/bass purchases today vs 50 years ago but many older buyers are purchasing larger quantities of units vs what they were 50 years ago. If those observations are correct it doesn't bode well for the long term health of the industry. It almost implies that current product consumption is being driven by a customer base that cannot sustain their purchase levels for much longer (maybe 10 or 15 years tops) while at the same time there is not a new wave of buyers following close behind. That's called a bubble, and it's usually not good for companies that don't have a rock solid financial foundation.

A new Gibson Thunderbird cost $400 in 1964, that's over $3100 in today's monopoly money.

My point: quality instruments have traditionally been a luxury item. Be happy with today's prices and available options from Gibson USA.