Thunderbird Club

[Chucky Stiletti]

In the early '30s Fairy (mfg.) bought and crated a Curtiss V-12 to the UK, Mr. Royce's people did in fact inspect it, the Rolls Royce Kestrel and it's more successful variant the Merlin followed.




I've been reading about all of these planes, if you were going to get shot at, your best chances were in a '17 by a significant margin. More than half the total number of Lancasters built were shot down, about 4700, worse yet, your chances of surviving were about 17% because it was nearly impossible to bail out of. WWI English Infantry had a better survival rate. Sir Aurthor Harris was even opposed to a design change of the forward escape hatch that would have helped crews get out of a stricken plane, he didn't want production interrupted. Mind you, the standard RAF fare was that it was "safer" to fly at night.
Being newer the '24 and the Lanc could carry more bomb load than a '17, but the'24 carried a good portion of it's fuel in the fuselage and it didn't take much to set it afire, about 31% survival rate for a bailout.
B-17s flew the majority of the 8th Air Force missions, it was a tough plane, but many were lost, crewman had about 48% survival rate after bailout. It carried it's fuel in the wings and thus were it to catch fire the crew had a better chance to get out.
I recently read "Big Week" which discusses the 8th's efforts to win air superiority over Europe, from Jan. '44 onward they took the fight to the Luftwaffe by flying to targets the had to defend. The 8th's fighter escort was given free reign to hunt the Luftwaffe, an effective change tactics instituted by James Doolittle.

yeah, seems like getting out of british bombers safely was an afterthought….you were hosed if you weren’t a pilot or copilot in a V series bomber…..getting out of a Mosquito with those massive props was pretty hairy from what I’ve read…..also, most of the british heavy bombers only had one pilot….gnarly stuff….

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Chucky what is that plane? It looks like the predecessor to the Jet powered Meteor.

DeHavilland Mosquito….”the wooden wonder”…..twin Merlins…

 

[TBird1958]

yeah, seems like getting out of british safely was an afterthought….you were hosed if you weren’t a pilot or copilot in a V series bomber…..getting out of a Mosquito with those massive props was pretty hairy from what I’ve read…..also, most of the british heavy bombers only had one pilot….gnarly stuff….

All of those guys that flew in those planes had to courageous, I have an immense admiration for them.

 

[SubHuman]

In the early '30s Fairy (mfg.) bought and crated a Curtiss V-12 to the UK, Mr. Royce's people did in fact inspect it, the Rolls Royce Kestrel and it's more successful variant the Merlin followed.




I've been reading about all of these planes, if you were going to get shot at, your best chances were in a '17 by a significant margin. More than half the total number of Lancasters built were shot down, about 4700, worse yet, your chances of surviving were about 17% because it was nearly impossible to bail out of. WWI English Infantry had a better survival rate. Sir Aurthor Harris was even opposed to a design change of the forward escape hatch that would have helped crews get out of a stricken plane, he didn't want production interrupted. Mind you, the standard RAF fare was that it was "safer" to fly at night.
Being newer the '24 and the Lanc could carry more bomb load than a '17, but the'24 carried a good portion of it's fuel in the fuselage and it didn't take much to set it afire, about 31% survival rate for a bailout.
B-17s flew the majority of the 8th Air Force missions, it was a tough plane, but many were lost, crewman had about 48% survival rate after bailout. It carried it's fuel in the wings and thus were it to catch fire the crew had a better chance to get out.
I recently read "Big Week" which discusses the 8th's efforts to win air superiority over Europe, from Jan. '44 onward they took the fight to the Luftwaffe by flying to targets the had to defend. The 8th's fighter escort was given free rein to hunt the Luftwaffe, an effective change tactics instituted by James Doolittle.

Nice! Thx!

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

All of those guys that flew in those planes had to courageous, I have an immense admiration for them.

absolutely, but you know, Flyboys was on the other day and the bomber (actually fighters too) crews in WWI with no issued chutes were the baddest…if you were flying in a bomber unescorted and got spotted by an enemy fighter you were done…look at where the fuel tanks sat on a C-3……YIKES!…interestingly, the USAAC used these extensively until Martin started delivering….

 

[SubHuman]

absolutely, but you know, Flyboys was on the other day and the bomber (actually fighters too) crews in WWI with no issued chutes were the baddest…if you were flying in a bomber unescorted and got spotted by an enemy fighter you were done…look at where the fuel tanks sat on a C-3……YIKES!…interestingly, the USAAC used these extensively until Martin started delivering….
View attachment 5419567

Oh wow...Nothing like having the seat backrest be 2 large fuel tanks!

 

[MCF]

All of those guys that flew in those planes had to courageous, I have an immense admiration for them.

Did you all watch Masters of the Air on Apple TV? It was really well done. They should have condensed it a little bit, maybe into two fewer episodes. But it is an amazing series. A must watch for any WWII and plane geek.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Did you all watch Masters of the Air on Apple TV? It was really well done. They should have condensed it a little bit, maybe into two fewer episodes. But it is an amazing series. A must watch for any WWII and plane geek.

are they done with all the episodes? was waiting for that….

 

[Haji]

Thanks for posting the link. That's some progressive country music.
That was really well done Haji. I listened to the other releases as well. Tell us more about that project, or PM if you prefer.

This band started as a for-fun punk band. Back then, Jay was on vocals and guitar. We had enough drummer issues that we figured it'd be easier to find a guitarist, so Jay went back to drums, which are really his first love and what he plays best (he's a way better bass player than I am, too). We found out new singer (the vocalist on Prison) and still haven't found a permanent guitarist. I got a Roland SPD-SX that we use for sound bites and backing tracks that has the guitar tracks on it so we can still do shows. You'd think finding players near Music City would be easy...but finding the right one has been a supreme challenge!

 

[MCF]

are they done with all the episodes? was waiting for that….

Season One ended last month. I understand there will probably be a second season.

I think you will enjoy it.

FWIW, in the ever changing world of TV, I find myself watching Apple TV shows, Acorn TV for British and OZ shows, and some Netflix. Now that it’s baseball season, most of my viewing is Dodgers.

Oh. And BTW, the Giants suck.

 

[Haji]

Did you all watch Masters of the Air on Apple TV? It was really well done. They should have condensed it a little bit, maybe into two fewer episodes. But it is an amazing series. A must watch for any WWII and plane geek.

I agree; either fewer with the Bloody Hundredth or an entire second season to tie up the other story lines, like the Red Tails. Overall, though, it's quite good. The hardest thing for the series is that it'll get compared to Band of Brothers, which had the advantage of following just one company. That comparison is the same one that The Pacific had to endure. That said, I'd love to see them continue to make these. They can try to tackle the Navy next, or perhaps fighter squadrons, and I would LOVE to see a series about commando groups like the Jedburghs.

 

[TBird1958]

Did you all watch Masters of the Air on Apple TV? It was really well done. They should have condensed it a little bit, maybe into two fewer episodes. But it is an amazing series. A must watch for any WWII and plane geek.

Frank found it on Blue Ray, we've got two episodes left, I like it but it's a very difficult story capture due to it's vast scope. What I do like is that it's brought the story of the people and their extraordinary courage to a lot of people's attention. FWIW the book is actually quite different and deals with the scope of the war far better than the series ,a very good read if you happen to enjoy WWII history.

 

[Haji]

Also highly recommended: Shogun on Hulu. That series so far has been excellent, both in the storytelling and in the casting.

 

[MCF]

I agree; either fewer with the Bloody Hundredth or an entire second season to tie up the other story lines, like the Red Tails. Overall, though, it's quite good. The hardest thing for the series is that it'll get compared to Band of Brothers, which had the advantage of following just one company. That comparison is the same one that The Pacific had to endure. That said, I'd love to see them continue to make these. They can try to tackle the Navy next, or perhaps fighter squadrons, and I would LOVE to see a series about commando groups like the Jedburghs.

So tell Tom Hanks. I guess he’s behind it. That guy is relentless in telling the stories of our grandfathers and fathers. And we need to remember all of the sacrifices they made.

My grandfather (who I never knew) served in the Pacific. My Dad was discharged from the Marines just before the “Korean Conflict.” But he went on to be the civilian launch director at Vandenberg AFB. Which was probably more effective than anything he would have done had he stayed in the military.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

Season One ended last month. I understand there will probably be a second season.

I think you will enjoy it.

FWIW, in the ever changing world of TV, I find myself watching Apple TV shows, Acorn TV for British and OZ shows, and some Netflix. Now that it’s baseball season, most of my viewing is Dodgers.

Oh. And BTW, the Giants suck.

Thx M!..
gave up on MLB in 94…oh, and after learning it’s based on rounders, a game popular with Irish schoolgirls……..

 

[BklynKen]

absolutely, but you know, Flyboys was on the other day and the bomber (actually fighters too) crews in WWI with no issued chutes were the baddest…if you were flying in a bomber unescorted and got spotted by an enemy fighter you were done…look at where the fuel tanks sat on a C-3……YIKES!…interestingly, the USAAC used these extensively until Martin started delivering….
View attachment 5419567

"Kids these days," said WWI crews about WWII crews (I'm guessing).

 

[MCF]

Frank found it on Blue Ray, we've got two episodes left, I like it but it's a very difficult story capture due to it's vast scope. What I do like is that it's brought the story of the people and their extraordinary courage to a lot of people's attention. FWIW the book is actually quite different and deals with the scope of the war far better than the series ,a very good read if you happen to enjoy WWII history.

I totally agree V. How do you tell the story of kids, and they all were just kids, getting into planes to fly over Germany in daylight, tasked with dropping bombs on strategic sites? The Brits, because they were under attack, had the advantage of doing the dirty work, doing bombing raids at night. America sacrificed so much. In Europe and the Pacific.

The signs were all there in the 1920’s and 1930’s. Yet we ignored them. Please help us not repeat those mistakes.

 

[MCF]

Also highly recommended: Shogun on Hulu. That series so far has been excellent, both in the storytelling and in the casting.

On the list Haji. Probably won’t get to it until baseball season is over though.

 

[MCF]

In the early '30s Fairy (mfg.) bought and crated a Curtiss V-12 to the UK, Mr. Royce's people did in fact inspect it, the Rolls Royce Kestrel and it's more successful variant the Merlin followed.




I've been reading about all of these planes, if you were going to get shot at, your best chances were in a '17 by a significant margin. More than half the total number of Lancasters built were shot down, about 4700, worse yet, your chances of surviving were about 17% because it was nearly impossible to bail out of. WWI English Infantry had a better survival rate. Sir Aurthor Harris was even opposed to a design change of the forward escape hatch that would have helped crews get out of a stricken plane, he didn't want production interrupted. Mind you, the standard RAF fare was that it was "safer" to fly at night.
Being newer the '24 and the Lanc could carry more bomb load than a '17, but the'24 carried a good portion of it's fuel in the fuselage and it didn't take much to set it afire, about 31% survival rate for a bailout.
B-17s flew the majority of the 8th Air Force missions, it was a tough plane, but many were lost, crewman had about 48% survival rate after bailout. It carried it's fuel in the wings and thus were it to catch fire the crew had a better chance to get out.
I recently read "Big Week" which discusses the 8th's efforts to win air superiority over Europe, from Jan. '44 onward they took the fight to the Luftwaffe by flying to targets the had to defend. The 8th's fighter escort was given free rein to hunt the Luftwaffe, an effective change tactics instituted by James Doolittle.

Fly JetBlue. Maybe you’ll meet my amazing daughter. They don’t fly any Boeings.

 

[MCF]

Thx M!..
gave up on MLB in 94…oh, and after learning it’s based on rounders, a game popular with Irish schoolgirls……..

I just finally stopped laughing. To each their own. I love baseball. But I no longer give a poopie for much else. I like the rugby. I watch MLB, track meets, marathons, swimming, rugby and skiing.