Thunderbird Club

[MCF]

We'll never get any data from the retail side yes, but maybe we could survey the buyers.

Other than here and Reddit, which I don’t pay much attention to, I’m not sure how we could do that. The FB group rarely mentions them. I don’t think Anderton’s in the UK has them; I rarely check into the UK based BassChat, I don’t know if any made it there. And Thomann doesn’t have them. It has been ages since I looked at The Last Bass Outpost so I don’t know if the issue has been discussed on there.

I guess the thing to do is buy one while they’re available and deal with it. I keep thinking I should get a blue one, then other wants pop up and I don’t.

 

[AllieCat]

Other than here and Reddit, which I don’t pay much attention to, I’m not sure how we could do that. The FB group rarely mentions them. I don’t think Anderton’s in the UK has them; I rarely check into the UK based BassChat, I don’t know if any made it there. And Thomann doesn’t have them. It has been ages since I looked at The Last Bass Outpost so I don’t know if the issue has been discussed on there.

I guess the thing to do is buy one while they’re available and deal with it. I keep thinking I should get a blue one, then other wants pop up and I don’t.

I think we'd have to put together a survey through Google Docs or something like that and then basically beg people to respond.

Similar things were done decades ago by WWII rifle collectors etc. It's how they were able to put together a timeline of the wartime changes made to Japanese Type 99 rifles despite the Japanese destroying all of their documents. Probably would require some more budget than we have at our disposal though

 

[MCF]

Yeah my issue was unrelated and admittedly less of a big deal. Especially for what we paid for them way back when.

I didn’t get the one I’m mentioning until a couple years ago. It’s not much of an issue. Man, the low end on that thing is massive. More so than on my Silverburst with the same pickups. I guess I should try and figure out why they are different. Same strings and pretty much comparable pickup height. Someday.

 

[MCF]

I think we'd have to put together a survey through Google Docs or something like that and then basically beg people to respond.

Similar things were done decades ago by WWII rifle collectors etc. It's how they were able to put together a timeline of the wartime changes made to Japanese Type 99 rifles despite the Japanese destroying all of their documents. Probably would require some more budget than we have at our disposal though

Go for it Allie!

 

[MCF]

SW can't offer the purple or blue sparkle variants. AMS/ZZounds has an exclusive in the USA for those.

Yep.

 

[AllieCat]

Go for it Allie!

I'll think about it.

I think the first step would be to identify what data we actually want to collect. Is it a broad and overarching survey about all Thunderbirds or should we constrain the project to a narrower scope?

Once we have an idea of what data we're trying to capture, we'd need to put together a survey for people to fill out. It would need to be simple and straightforward, and presumably take little time or effort to contribute. Then we'd need people to spread it around to cast as wide a net as possible.

 

[dagrev]

Did some brief digging.

View attachment 7171882View attachment 7171883

Pulled from AMS, the VP was said to be a 7-ply, where the '64 is claimed to be a 9-ply.

View attachment 7171884

Gibson called their now discontinued reverse body a 9-ply.

Here's a cropped picture from Gibson's website:

View attachment 7171881
.
While I count 9 plies on Dagrev's 'bird, it seems to me that the even number plies, the thin ones, are thicker than those on the VP. Ply 1 and 9 may be thicker too, with the center section with the most going on being thinner.

Of course this is all based on me just eyeballing pictures taken from different examples, and with a very small sample size. I've thought for a few years though, that looking at pictures of Epis and pictures of Gibby's, the ratios seem a little off between the two makes.

An old pic of my '64's back. Not so good of the plies but here it is for now.

Here's a better pic of the '64 Embassy. Really close so they look bigger. But I'm not sure they are any bigger than the VP form these pics.

 

[AllieCat]

I didn’t get the one I’m mentioning until a couple years ago. It’s not much of an issue. Man, the low end on that thing is massive. More so than on my Silverburst with the same pickups. I guess I should try and figure out why they are different. Same strings and pretty much comparable pickup height. Someday.

Did I tell you guys I bought a spare set of those oddball pups? I should put them on a meter and see if they measure the same as the ones installed in my 2010.

 

[MCF]

I'll think about it.

I think the first step would be to identify what data we actually want to collect. Is it a broad and overarching survey about all Thunderbirds or should we constrain the project to a narrower scope?

Once we have an idea of what data we're trying to capture, we'd need to put together a survey for people to fill out. It would need to be simple and straightforward, and presumably take little time or effort to contribute. Then we'd need people to spread it around to cast as wide a net as possible.

I’m having flashbacks to my Stats class that I had as a UCI Freshman in ‘76. Pre PC days. I sort of enjoyed that class. This is a project best taken up by the young.

 

[Miles_ONeal]

Did some brief digging.

View attachment 7171882View attachment 7171883

Pulled from AMS, the VP was said to be a 7-ply, where the '64 is claimed to be a 9-ply.

View attachment 7171884

Gibson called their now discontinued reverse body a 9-ply.

Here's a cropped picture from Gibson's website:

View attachment 7171881

While I count 9 plies on Dagrev's 'bird, it seems to me that the even number plies, the thin ones, are thicker than those on the VP. Ply 1 and 9 may be thicker too, with the center section with the most going on being thinner.

Of course this is all based on me just eyeballing pictures taken from different examples, and with a very small sample size. I've thought for a few years though, that looking at pictures of Epis and pictures of Gibby's, the ratios seem a little off between the two makes.

And yet the VPs are clearly 9. Here’s my 2019.

I don’t recall details but Epi had other errors in their specs on the web, as well.

 

[AllieCat]

Did I tell you guys I bought a spare set of those oddball pups? I should put them on a meter and see if they measure the same as the ones installed in my 2010.

Originally I'd gotten 12.95k Ω at the bridge and 8.47k Ω at the neck on the factory set installed on my 2010.
This set is taken from a (sadly) parted out 2010 Arctic White LE as well. It's reading 14.23k Ω on the bridge and 8.85k Ω on the neck.
Might be that these pups are inconsistent. A difference of 1.28K Ω on those bridge pups seems like a lot to me.

 

[AllieCat]

And yet the VPs are clearly 9. Here’s my 2019.
View attachment 7171973
I don’t recall details but Epi had other errors in their specs on the web, as well.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how they even arrive at the 7-ply figure. Maybe they're not counting those super thin plies but they are counting the wings on the body???

Would be interested to see measurements of the plies on examples over time and between the two makes.

 

[Stealth57]

An old pic of my '64's back. Not so good of the plies but here it is for now.
View attachment 7171970


Here's a better pic of the '64 Embassy. Really close so they look bigger. But I'm not sure they are any bigger than the VP form these pics.
View attachment 7171972

64

 

[dagrev]

I'll think about it.

I think the first step would be to identify what data we actually want to collect. Is it a broad and overarching survey about all Thunderbirds or should we constrain the project to a narrower scope?

Once we have an idea of what data we're trying to capture, we'd need to put together a survey for people to fill out. It would need to be simple and straightforward, and presumably take little time or effort to contribute. Then we'd need people to spread it around to cast as wide a net as possible.

Agree, as simple as possible. The longer a survey the fewer people would tend to respond. But I'm not sure the best way to target and seek responses. I've known my guy at SW a long time and we talk occasionally, but seriously doubt he would divulge their return numbers and would not want to even ask him as it could be considered ammo against something they are trying to sell. He might give an indication of more than normal, but I'm not even sure about that. Would seem to be a serious no, no from their perspective.

 

[MCF]

Did I tell you guys I bought a spare set of those oddball pups? I should put them on a meter and see if they measure the same as the ones installed in my 2010.

It would be fun to get a beater Goth, alter the routs, pop them in, wire directly to the jack ala Nikki Sixx, and crank.

 

[dagrev]

And yet the VPs are clearly 9. Here’s my 2019.
View attachment 7171973
I don’t recall details but Epi had other errors in their specs on the web, as well.

Yes, that seems correct about Epi not having correct info.

 

[AllieCat]

Agree, as simple as possible. The longer a survey the fewer people would tend to respond. But I'm not sure the best way to target and seek responses. I've known my guy at SW a long time and we talk occasionally, but seriously doubt he would divulge their return numbers and would not want to even ask him as it could be considered ammo against something they are trying to sell. He might give an indication of more than normal, but I'm not even sure about that. Would seem to be a serious no, no from their perspective.

Oh yeah 100%, we'd have to totally DIY this kind of thing as a community.

I think if I was going to do something like this I'd want to just focus down on the Epi '64 for now and maybe have a purely optional way for respondents to leave an email for future surveys about other T-birds but we'd only want to solicit information from people about their experiences with birds they had bought.

 

[AllieCat]

Yes, that seems correct about Epi not having correct info.

Seems strange that Epiphone would have the wrong info about how many pieces they put into their own product, but it's not outside of the realm of possibility that engineering was screaming at marketing about it for years

Maybe it was deliberate though, Gibson not wanting their internal competitor to look too much like they were selling an equal product.

 

[Bighouse]

I may have a problem with my D tuner- and maybe it has something to do with why the prior set of strings was resonating oddly. When I turn the key to tune, even though I’m turning the key many times, the actual peg will sometimes barely turn. I’ll do like 3 or 4 full rotations of the key to get the peg to move up half a step when tuning. This can’t be right. Everything LOOKS like it’s turning on the outside of the tuner, I can see the gears all spinning and the worm drive mechanism turning, but the peg itself just doesn’t turn as expected. The screws on the back of the tuners are all tight.

What’s up with that???

 

[MCF]

Used the Donor Embassy today. Can't remember the last time a bass drew that much attention. Drummer loved the sound. I agree, it sounded fantastic. I can't say positively I could tell the intonation was slightly out on the D and G. I knew it was and at times I think I was hearing with what I saw on the tuner not my ears. But even when I ventured up the neck a bit I can't swear I could notice a problem. I used SIT Power steels during the run through and wasn't sure I was as happy with the Boomers from Wed. or the Fender flats at had on at home. I slapped the Fender's on and did like those better. However, nothing was wrong with the SITs and they would have been fine, but I'm me.... Given this thing plays (a dream to play), looks, sounds so good I can't gut it for the 760s. I gotta keep it. If I find the intonation does become apparent I will move the bridge.

If you keep telling us this, you are going to cost us all money. Please stop.