Thunderbird Club

[Chucky Stiletti]

Had many business trips to China and Singapore where this is a fairly common fruit. I agree with Chucky, it looks uninviting and it smells like a septic tank. That's enough to put most people off, but when in Rome...

So, yes I've had it and didn't really care much for it, I like Dragon fruit much more. I've also had most of the other shocking menu items in rural China - cooked scorpion, duck embryo eggs fermented in cow dung, sea horse on a stick, suckling pig, deep fried whole shrimp, duck feet, duck tongue, snake, eel, dog, horse and I'm sure other things that I wasn't aware of. Like I said, when in Rome.

Most of those you can get in Europe or South America including dog... Durian you can't.
I like Drunken Prawns, Birds Nest Soup, Balut and Monkey Wine ..It's when you see the porcupine in a cage by the front door of the restaurant and you see porcupine soup advertised in the menu that I start looking for a McDonald's..

 

[GonePlaid]

Had many business trips to China and Singapore where this is a fairly common fruit. I agree with Chucky, it looks uninviting and it smells like a septic tank. That's enough to put most people off, but when in Rome...

So, yes I've had it and didn't really care much for it, I like Dragon fruit much more. I've also had most of the other shocking menu items in rural China - cooked scorpion, duck embryo eggs fermented in cow dung, sea horse on a stick, suckling pig, deep fried whole shrimp, duck feet, duck tongue, snake, eel, dog, horse and I'm sure other things that I wasn't aware of. Like I said, when in Rome.

As my dad would say "When in Rome, light a Roman candle"

 

[Count Bassie]

Beautiful amp. Ever have any problems with it?

It's a little different, construction-wise, than earlier models. There's a more "modular" (I guess) list of components and more pc boards... they fit a little more stuff in it, like the 2-band compressor and 2 voice presets, and the variable tube gain at the input. Also the graphic eq emphasis sweep.

I had an issue with a solder joint once, where the amp would get hot and melt the solder on this one joint, I forget why. Also the last guy to work on it bypassed something, lol, I forget what!

But, it's reliable as a hammer, sounds great to my ears, and is an all-around very useful and handy piece of gear. The older Trace gear has always been generally robust and solid gear.

 

[PillO]

The second time around, it is easier...

I put the Hipshot bridge on the white `bird.

Once you have done one and trial and errored your way through, it is rather easy.

 

[Nocturnal]

It's a little different, construction-wise, than earlier models. There's a more "modular" (I guess) list of components and more pc boards... they fit a little more stuff in it, like the 2-band compressor and 2 voice presets, and the variable tube gain at the input. Also the graphic eq emphasis sweep.

I had an issue with a solder joint once, where the amp would get hot and melt the solder on this one joint, I forget why. Also the last guy to work on it bypassed something, lol, I forget what!

But, it's reliable as a hammer, sounds great to my ears, and is an all-around very useful and handy piece of gear. The older Trace gear has always been generally robust and solid gear.

Does the tube give the amp some grit or does it just warm the sound up? I don't think of most Trace amps as being real aggressive. Loud, but not aggressive.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

It's a little different, construction-wise, than earlier models. There's a more "modular" (I guess) list of components and more pc boards... they fit a little more stuff in it, like the 2-band compressor and 2 voice presets, and the variable tube gain at the input. Also the graphic eq emphasis sweep.

I had an issue with a solder joint once, where the amp would get hot and melt the solder on this one joint, I forget why. Also the last guy to work on it bypassed something, lol, I forget what!

But, it's reliable as a hammer, sounds great to my ears, and is an all-around very useful and handy piece of gear. The older Trace gear has always been generally robust and solid gear.

I played TEs back in the day. Had a 250 4 X 10 combo. Also borrowed a Hexavalve once and loved it. If I recall they were the ones to revisit the 10" speaker concept. Saw Level 42 in Wembley and fell in love with King's sound. Bought the combo shortly afterwards. Unfortunately it was unreliable and sold it about 6 months afterwards. I remember it having a really noisy DI. Bummer, cause it sounded excellent.

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

The second time around, it is easier...

View attachment 3035126

I put the Hipshot bridge on the white `bird.

Once you have done one and trial and errored your way through, it is rather easy.

The black hardware and strings on the white looks striking.

 

[theFixer]

The second time around, it is easier...

View attachment 3035126

I put the Hipshot bridge on the white `bird.

Once you have done one and trial and errored your way through, it is rather easy.

ooooooooooo... I LIKE that

 

[Count Bassie]

Does the tube give the amp some grit or does it just warm the sound up? I don't think of most Trace amps as being real aggressive. Loud, but not aggressive.

Right, no you don't get grind, but it does do that 'warm' thing, it's noticeable. I've been using it with no tube, the knob all the way to the solid state end. Got a Groove Tube for it the other day (finally wore one out, I usually use it), will drop that in this weekend. Can't say as I've missed it though.

 

[Count Bassie]

It's a little different, construction-wise, than earlier models. There's a more "modular" (I guess) list of components and more pc boards... they fit a little more stuff in it, like the 2-band compressor and 2 voice presets, and the variable tube gain at the input. Also the graphic eq emphasis sweep.

I had an issue with a solder joint once, where the amp would get hot and melt the solder on this one joint, I forget why. Also the last guy to work on it bypassed something, lol, I forget what!

But, it's reliable as a hammer, sounds great to my ears, and is an all-around very useful and handy piece of gear. The older Trace gear has always been generally robust and solid gear.

Oh yeah, toroidal transformer, if I recall correctly (...I think!), smaller and lighter. The SM/SMX are noticeably lighter than previous heads...

 

[Count Bassie]

I played TEs back in the day. Had a 250 4 X 10 combo. Also borrowed a Hexavalve once and loved it. If I recall they were the ones to revisit the 10" speaker concept. Saw Level 42 in Wembley and fell in love with King's sound. Bought the combo shortly afterwards. Unfortunately it was unreliable and sold it about 6 months afterwards. I remember it having a really noisy DI. Bummer, cause it sounded excellent.

Bummer, I wonder what stage of decline the company was in when you got yours? Mine is the end of the Kaman era I think.
I had MK V once, a GP11, AH200. Beastly.

 

[Count Bassie]

I played TEs back in the day. Had a 250 4 X 10 combo. Also borrowed a Hexavalve once and loved it. If I recall they were the ones to revisit the 10" speaker concept. Saw Level 42 in Wembley and fell in love with King's sound. Bought the combo shortly afterwards. Unfortunately it was unreliable and sold it about 6 months afterwards. I remember it having a really noisy DI. Bummer, cause it sounded excellent.

I was at Berklee in '85 when I started seeing the Series 6 Trace rigs, some of the local heavies had them. I remember being intrigued by the blacklit display thing. Also most of those "heavies" seemed to not understand how to use their eq, as their tone was often a ghost of a sonic presence. That voice preset and the smiley graphic eq was an unfortunately impressive learning curve for many, I recall!

 

[PillO]

The black hardware and strings on the white looks striking.

ooooooooooo... I LIKE that

The white `bird lends itself to a white with black look. I don't like the look of chrome with white (nothing wrong with it, just not my thing). I like the black and white look on this one. I also have a white (with black) strap for it to maintain the look. I did this late enough last night that I couldn't plug in and play. Today I'll see how the bridge affects sound. Maybe the looks will make me play well (or at least distract from my lack of skill).

 

[PillO]

Right, no you don't get grind, but it does do that 'warm' thing, it's noticeable. I've been using it with no tube, the knob all the way to the solid state end. Got a Groove Tube for it the other day (finally wore one out, I usually use it), will drop that in this weekend. Can't say as I've missed it though.

Oh yeah, toroidal transformer, if I recall correctly (...I think!), smaller and lighter. The SM/SMX are noticeably lighter than previous heads...

Many years ago, and recently as my brother has been shopping for an amp, I have discussed what makes a tube amp sound the way it does. There is a mythology around "overdriven power tubes". If you want that overdriven power tube sound, you have to play at or near full power. Anyone that is not playing at full volume, but talks about their overdriven power tube tone is not hearing what they think they hear. Tubes do have a characteristic overdriven sound but I think it is that in combination with the output transformer that really gives it that pleasant sound (that and the cultural adaptation that has happened over 80 years of hearing that tone).

Can the audience hear the difference? Can one skilled in the art hear the difference? I am sure that many of you are familiar with the Captain and Chappers from Anderton's. Their videos manage to be simultaneously (mostly) unbiased, fair, and most importantly funny. So, here is something I ran across recently.



Having watched many Captain and Chappers videos, I would consider Chappers "one skilled in the art" and his performance is worse than random chance. Now, it is far from a perfect trial, but I think these guys do very well in trying to control variables and seem to be very honest and balanced.

 

[Gaolee]

Many years ago, and recently as my brother has been shopping for an amp, I have discussed what makes a tube amp sound the way it does. There is a mythology around "overdriven power tubes". If you want that overdriven power tube sound, you have to play at or near full power. Anyone that is not playing at full volume, but talks about their overdriven power tube tone is not hearing what they think they hear. Tubes do have a characteristic overdriven sound but I think it is that in combination with the output transformer that really gives it that pleasant sound (that and the cultural adaptation that has happened over 80 years of hearing that tone).

Can the audience hear the difference? Can one skilled in the art hear the difference? I am sure that many of you are familiar with the Captain and Chappers from Anderton's. Their videos manage to be simultaneously (mostly) unbiased, fair, and most importantly funny. So, here is something I ran across recently.



Having watched many Captain and Chappers videos, I would consider Chappers "one skilled in the art" and his performance is worse than random chance. Now, it is far from a perfect trial, but I think these guys do very well in trying to control variables and seem to be very honest and balanced.

I went to a show recently at a mid-sized venue in Seattle. The bass player for the main act plays a doghouse, and the sound system made it sound just like what it was. The opening act had a Ric, and it could have been just about anything. Sound in the venue made it sound big and dark. It was a decent sound, but not a sound you would associate with a Ric. So, my take on things is that unless you are pushing out the sound from your amp with no FOH support, there's minimal chance that the audience will hear your "sound" unless the sound guy is making sure the bass sounds the way you intend. Or, maybe the guy playing the Ric really did want it to sound like a P with dead flats and a foam mute.

 

[theFixer]

Many years ago, and recently as my brother has been shopping for an amp, I have discussed what makes a tube amp sound the way it does. There is a mythology around "overdriven power tubes". If you want that overdriven power tube sound, you have to play at or near full power. Anyone that is not playing at full volume, but talks about their overdriven power tube tone is not hearing what they think they hear. Tubes do have a characteristic overdriven sound but I think it is that in combination with the output transformer that really gives it that pleasant sound (that and the cultural adaptation that has happened over 80 years of hearing that tone).

Can the audience hear the difference? Can one skilled in the art hear the difference? I am sure that many of you are familiar with the Captain and Chappers from Anderton's. Their videos manage to be simultaneously (mostly) unbiased, fair, and most importantly funny. So, here is something I ran across recently.



Having watched many Captain and Chappers videos, I would consider Chappers "one skilled in the art" and his performance is worse than random chance. Now, it is far from a perfect trial, but I think these guys do very well in trying to control variables and seem to be very honest and balanced.

IMHO... what was learned by this video, was how to make expensive amps & pedals all sound like cheap pedals. All that gain is just ridiculous. Hey guitar players... GAIN IS NOT TONE!!! I would love to see them do the same thing with a mix of old school tube amps (Plexi, Bassman, etc.), and pedals that claim to sound like those same amps (with the pedals all running through a solid state power amp). Me thinks it would be a much shorter video...

 

[Haji]

Friends of ours brought their own sound guy-and paid him out of pocket-when we did a show with them last year. The house guy was pretty good but wouldn't mic a cab; he insisted on a DI. The sound for us was good, for our friends it was exceptional.

Frank Bello of Anthrax at Bass Player Live a few years ago on a panel with Billy Sheehan, Rex Brown and others said its a constant fight for him to get his sound in FOH. He insists on mic'ing the cab for that reason. I'm not Frank; I'm just happy there arw more than just the other bands in the audience.

 

[dukeorock]

I went to a show recently at a mid-sized venue in Seattle. The bass player for the main act plays a doghouse, and the sound system made it sound just like what it was. The opening act had a Ric, and it could have been just about anything. Sound in the venue made it sound big and dark. It was a decent sound, but not a sound you would associate with a Ric. So, my take on things is that unless you are pushing out the sound from your amp with no FOH support, there's minimal chance that the audience will hear your "sound" unless the sound guy is making sure the bass sounds the way you intend. Or, maybe the guy playing the Ric really did want it to sound like a P with dead flats and a foam mute.

Man, that was the case for quite awhile around Nashville...lots of cool kids playing Rics because they like the look, but the sound is more like a P bass with dead strings...shame

 

[Chucky Stiletti]

I went to a show recently at a mid-sized venue in Seattle. The bass player for the main act plays a doghouse, and the sound system made it sound just like what it was. The opening act had a Ric, and it could have been just about anything. Sound in the venue made it sound big and dark. It was a decent sound, but not a sound you would associate with a Ric. So, my take on things is that unless you are pushing out the sound from your amp with no FOH support, there's minimal chance that the audience will hear your "sound" unless the sound guy is making sure the bass sounds the way you intend. Or, maybe the guy playing the Ric really did want it to sound like a P with dead flats and a foam mute.

Well, Ricks did come stock with flats and a foam mute..

 

[Engle]

The white `bird lends itself to a white with black look. I don't like the look of chrome with white (nothing wrong with it, just not my thing). I like the black and white look on this one. I also have a white (with black) strap for it to maintain the look. I did this late enough last night that I couldn't plug in and play. Today I'll see how the bridge affects sound. Maybe the looks will make me play well (or at least distract from my lack of skill).

Those are nice bridges!
I put the similar 2 point Hipshot on my Mann Armstrong plexi. It did make a difference, but in that case the original was the worst excuse for a bass bridge I have ever seen. Literally a bass-bridge-shaped object!
I don't think there will be a perceivable difference in tone, but will be interested in your opinion.