** ThunderFunk vs. LittleMark II **

[tallboybass]

Well, I played my blues gig last night and was amazed at how the LMKII pulled it off. Now, I've been fighting the Bartolinis in my newly acquired '99 Lakland since I got it. There just doesn't seem to be much upper mid content. I started off with the amp totally flat, the tweeter off on the 410UL, and immediately had to add upper mids and highs. IMO in a blues joint, you don't want sizzly highs, but good upper mid definition that doesn't dominate the overall tone. The LittleMark delivered that, with a really nice sounding low end, not spongy as far as I could tell. I left the 'bass' and 'lowmids' flat.

I got the amp from fellow TBer '55-02' who works at the GC in OKCity. He is extremely knowledgeable in all things bass, and did a great job making sure everything was cool.

It's interesting how 'MarkBass fever' has hit here at TB. Of course, a 6 lb. amp that puts out 500w is always going to draw attention. I can't wait to try it out at the next gig.

 

[Aram]

Well, I played my blues gig last night and was amazed at how the LMKII pulled it off. Now, I've been fighting the Bartolinis in my newly acquired '99 Lakland since I got it. There just doesn't seem to be much upper mid content. I started off with the amp totally flat, the tweeter off on the 410UL, and immediately had to add upper mids and highs. IMO in a blues joint, you don't want sizzly highs, but good upper mid definition that doesn't dominate the overall tone. The LittleMark delivered that, with a really nice sounding low end, not spongy as far as I could tell. I left the 'bass' and 'lowmids' flat.

I got the amp from fellow TBer '55-02' who works at the GC in OKCity. He is extremely knowledgeable in all things bass, and did a great job making sure everything was cool.

It's interesting how 'MarkBass fever' has hit here at TB. Of course, a 6 lb. amp that puts out 500w is always going to draw attention. I can't wait to try it out at the next gig.

Awesome! Glad to hear the LMKII is working out for you so far!

Aram

 

[Brad Johnson]

Well, I played my blues gig last night and was amazed at how the LMKII pulled it off. Now, I've been fighting the Bartolinis in my newly acquired '99 Lakland since I got it. There just doesn't seem to be much upper mid content. I started off with the amp totally flat, the tweeter off on the 410UL, and immediately had to add upper mids and highs. IMO in a blues joint, you don't want sizzly highs, but good upper mid definition that doesn't dominate the overall tone. The LittleMark delivered that, with a really nice sounding low end, not spongy as far as I could tell. I left the 'bass' and 'lowmids' flat.

I got the amp from fellow TBer '55-02' who works at the GC in OKCity. He is extremely knowledgeable in all things bass, and did a great job making sure everything was cool.

It's interesting how 'MarkBass fever' has hit here at TB. Of course, a 6 lb. amp that puts out 500w is always going to draw attention. I can't wait to try it out at the next gig.

Sounds like a textbook situation for the VLE control. Turn the tweeter back on and roll off the desired amount of highs with the VLE control. Remember, turned fully CCW is off. And make sure you start with the other filter turned off... it cuts mids.

This is usally preferable to trying to dial them back in with no tweeter.

Congrats.

 

[tallboybass]

Sounds like a textbook situation for the VLE control. Turn the tweeter back on and roll off the desired amount of highs with the VLE control. Remember, turned fully CCW is off.

This is usally preferable to trying to dial them back in with no tweeter.

Congrats.

Thanks for the tip Brad. I had zero time to work with the amp at the gig, so I'll do a little experimentation today at home. Where does your VLE setting end up most of the time?

 

[KJung]

Thanks for the tip Brad. I had zero time to work with the amp at the gig, so I'll do a little experimentation today at home. Where does your VLE setting end up most of the time?

+1 My understanding of the VLE control is that it is basically equivalent to the passive tone control on a bass (like the VTC on the Sadowsky. Very nice for taking a touch of sizzly out while still letting all your upper mids and lower treble come throught for clarity and definition in the mix.

As Brad says, turn the tweeter to about 9 o'clock, and then slowly turn 'up' the VLE until the sizzle subsides!

 

[tallboybass]

+1 My understanding of the VLE control is that it is basically equivalent to the passive tone control on a bass (like the VTC on the Sadowsky. Very nice for taking a touch of sizzly out while still letting all your upper mids and lower treble come throught for clarity and definition in the mix.

As Brad says, turn the tweeter to about 9 o'clock, and then slowly turn 'up' the VLE until the sizzle subsides!

What a great control to have....'cause this thing will get SIZZLY on ya in a heartbeat!

 

[Steve S]

+1 My understanding of the VLE control is that it is basically equivalent to the passive tone control on a bass (like the VTC on the Sadowsky. Very nice for taking a touch of sizzly out while still letting all your upper mids and lower treble come throught for clarity and definition in the mix.

As Brad says, turn the tweeter to about 9 o'clock, and then slowly turn 'up' the VLE until the sizzle subsides!

Thanks! That's good information for me to know..

 

[Aram]

On the Markbass homepage Invalid Link Removed they used to show the frequencies that get rolled off as you turn up VLE the knob. It looks like the other filter is on there now though. Maybe try reloading it a few times, or click around on the site to see if you can find it.

 

[bugbass]

Had a nice gig yesterday, quite loud on stage with a rock/pop 5 piece band. I used my LMII, 104HF and Sadowsky 24/5. I got a superb stagesound, punchy, warm yet articulate. Amp settings were gain 12 o´clock, eq flat, filters off, master 10. I still can`t believe how loud this amp is, 300w/8ohm but feels like a lot more. Plug and play, I don`t miss a thing. Playing the best bass in the world also makes things easyer...

 

[Chef]

Aaaand we're done.
Couldn'ta said it better.
My TFB420 is, and has been, my primary gigging buddy for 2+ years.
You can have it when you can pry it from my cold dead fingers.

Stuff I have that gets real dusty waiting for a turn at work:
WT800B
Navigator/qsc-plx 1602
MusicMan HD150
Mesa Walkabout
Carvin B1500 (been here, broke, went back, due back today...but I can a;ready tell you it ain't a TFB replacement)

IMO, the fact that the Thunderfunk keeps showing up in "vs." threads with many other amps will tell you alot about it. It's really because the TF is the most versatile amp out there right now - it works with any cab, in just about any room, with any bass, etc. It's tone profile sits in the middle - its warm, but not sluggish at all; articulate but not sterile at all.

There are other amps out there that are probably better for specific applications, but the TF will get you within 90% of the sound of just about everything out there. That's what makes it so special!

 

[tallboybass]

On the Markbass homepage Invalid Link Removed they used to show the frequencies that get rolled off as you turn up VLE the knob. It looks like the other filter is on there now though. Maybe try reloading it a few times, or click around on the site to see if you can find it.

That's in the manual (which is on the website). VLE.....what a great feature!

 

[tallboybass]

Thanks Chef, for presenting the other side.....this thread HAS kinda turned into a lovefest for MB hasn't it? I'd definitely be all over the TF if the price were anywhere close to the MB.

 

[B String]

I think they sound similar too. I'm not getting a spongy vibe through any of my cabs. Maybe it's the ultra-lites?

The tooby kind of sponginess I heard was only when I got
away from the box, out in front of stage. Standing around
the amp was better. I admit its a good amp. I think my
totally rotten experience at Guitar Center has tainted my
opinion of the brand. Plus the TF is such a killer amp.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Thanks for the tip Brad. I had zero time to work with the amp at the gig, so I'll do a little experimentation today at home. Where does your VLE setting end up most of the time?

Off. I mainly use active basses and the LMII matches up with my cabs perfectly. I've made a point of only using basses that sound great with my rigs with the amp's EQ set flat... got tired after too many years of having to "fix" the EQ for a bass that was lacking in some area.

The VLE will most definitely mellow out your tweeter all the way to making it appear non-existent. I'm guessing that what you want may be somewhere between either extreme.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Thanks Chef, for presenting the other side.....this thread HAS kinda turned into a lovefest for MB hasn't it? I'd definitely be all over the TF if the price were anywhere close to the MB.

Chef and I have the same model and they do turn up used in the same general price range as the LMII, sometimes a little more. I'm tempted to sell mine. They're great amps.

There's one primary reason why I go on and on about this amp (the LMII)... it so exceeded my expectations that even now, after months of gigging, it's still capable of putting a big grin on my face when I'm out on a gig and stop to think about what it's doing. It also surprises the heck out of most people who get to hear it live, at volume, in the mix. Are you going through the PA? Is that one of those powered cabs? What's that thing sitting on your speakers? What? No way?

I'll admit, it's fun. It does all the heavy lifting and makes me look good.

 

[BurningSkies]

I'm not sure quite what features make an amp 'more pro'. As a gigging player (not a full time pro), I do look for certain things...and the LM seems to have them. I will say that most full time players don't have roadies or extra cash to splash around if they don't have to. They tend to do whatever they can to make the mortgage and pay the doctor's bills and put food on their tables (if they're not living with mom and dad!)

A clean DI is one thing I'd look for, even if you plan to use an external most of the time. My Mesa 400+ would be what one would call a 'pro' amp I guess...and I didn't find the DI or the slave out to be effective for me to use to the board or to record. The LMII seems to have a DI that's clean and effective.

Another 'Pro' issue I guess would be a decent 'plug and play' setup. Most of the guys I know who play full time also schlep gear and PA equipment to many gigs AND have to run the pre show setup. Having an amp that sounds good without lots of knob tweaking and is adjustable for a room with small adjustments would be desirable. The LM has this too.

Going with the same theme, most of the "Pros" I know do their own load in. So portability and weight ARE a factor. If you're moving gear several times a day almost every day of the week, a few pounds can count, as can the size of a rig if you've got a van full of gear or if you work locally and take a car.

Probably the most important feature of an amp to a 'Pro' that I can imagine, is the dependability of the piece of gear. Better than any 'mute' switch (for which I've never heard any bassist in real life pine or even mention) is the security that you're not going to lose your amp mid gig or turn your amp on for sound check and find it DOA. At this point, Markbass amps don't have a US track record, but have a good reputation in the EU. Peter Murray quoted a failure rate (don't ask me to quote it right now) that seemed extremely low. I'm sure that TF amps are the same way.

Again, besides a para-EQ which I personally have zero interest in (I don't want to spend my time 'sweeping, etc to find usable 'sweetspots') and a mute switch I can't tell what makes the TF worth twice as much as the LMII (If you personally find the sound of each to be pleasing). A pre/post DI switch on the back of the amp would be a nice thing, but in 12 years of using my old amp (pre Mesa), I left mine set for the same place.

 

[bugbass]

Interesting. Given that the amp is post-EQ on the DI, and how nervous some soundmen get if you even look like you're thinking about changing settings on the amp once they've taken a DI signal out that's post-gain/EQ and run a soundcheck, I see it as very handy and on amps that do have a "mute" I use it a lot.

Maybe it's just personal preference but I'm careful that way when I set my bass down or unplug to tune or whatever, and I prefer not to have to fiddle with little knobs and memorize where to set them back to. I'm not a "pro" but I do gig a lot in real life, and it's one of the key features I look for in any gear - much preferring a mute over things like para-EQ for example, if that trade-off had to be made - but I like the MB well enough even without it.

I suggest the fact that MB has a mute on their costlier amps reveals that they too think it's a worthwhile feature, and maybe you don't hear bassists done pine for a "mute" because most good amps these days have one. JMHO.

If a mute is so important then dont buy the LMII. But there are plenty ways around this too, like a floortuner with a mute. I would also like a pre/post switch for the DI, but it`s been a while since I used the amps DI anyway, most of them aren`t good enough IMO. Get a Radial JDI or a Countryman, IMO this is a very good investment, and I know that the signal I send to the PA is top quality.
What I see in the LMII is a small, light and inexpensive amp(under half the price of my three previous amps), that sounds good enough for me to use. Maybe there are some features missing(for some), but thats why this amp has this low price.

 

[BurningSkies]

Interesting. Given that the amp is post-EQ on the DI, and how nervous some soundmen get if you even look like you're thinking about changing settings on the amp once they've taken a DI signal out that's post-gain/EQ and run a soundcheck, I see it as very handy and on amps that do have a "mute" I use it a lot.

Maybe it's just personal preference but I'm careful that way when I set my bass down or unplug to tune or whatever, and I prefer not to have to fiddle with little knobs and memorize where to set them back to. I'm not a "pro" but I do gig a lot in real life, and it's one of the key features I look for in any gear - much preferring a mute over things like para-EQ for example, if that trade-off had to be made - but I like the MB well enough even without it.

I suggest the fact that MB has a mute on their costlier amps reveals that they too think it's a worthwhile feature, and maybe you don't hear bassists done pine for a "mute" because most good amps these days have one. JMHO.

I guess it's possible. I usually turn my bass down from the instrument when its on the stand and usually tune before sound check (I've been luckily blessed with several instruments that seem to have amazingly stable tuning).

Upon pondering about this further, I also have used a rack tuner for years that has a mute, and while using it rarely, if I needed to do a cord change would definitely utilize it. With my new setup, since the LMII is so small I'll probably spring for a strobostomp for tuning or another similar tuner.
For the record, I've never in working with hundreds of different sound men or companies had anyone say anything negative to me about making amp adjustments when I needed to. I prefer to send signal post EQ and have done so for years.

 

[Jeff Moote]

Also in studio, I don't find many engineers that like to see amp fiddling once everything is set, or a cheap stomp tuner in-line.

..but a Peterson with true bypass is hardly "cheap".

Again though, that's just me. My experiences, most of which I learned the hard way. It's a feature that I have heard many, if admittedly not a majority, of other players pine for and that's also a feature MarkBass thought was important enough to include on their "higher end" amps.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't view the bigger Markbass amps as "higher end" at all. IME they don't offer anything other than the stuff that's obvious on the surface: para EQ, tubes for some, and of course your much sought after mute.

The one mute option that nobody is mentioning - unplug at the amp end! There's no pop due to the design of the input jack, unlike unplugging at the instrument end. This also allows you to plug into that tuner sitting on top of your head (because like you said, you're not going to muck up your compact setup with an inline stomp tuner or a rack model). This is a completely silent solution that you and your soundguy should be pleased with.

 

[KJung]

..but a Peterson with true bypass is hardly "cheap".

Maybe it's just me, but I don't view the bigger Markbass amps as "higher end" at all. IME they don't offer anything other than the stuff that's obvious on the surface: para EQ, tubes for some, and of course your much sought after mute.

The one mute option that nobody is mentioning - unplug at the amp end! There's no pop due to the design of the input jack, unlike unplugging at the instrument end. This also allows you to plug into that tuner sitting on top of your head (because like you said, you're not going to muck up your compact setup with an inline stomp tuner or a rack model). This is a completely silent solution that you and your soundguy should be pleased with.

There is no wrong or right answer here. I could care less about a tuner mute, since I use your method, but I sure can understand those that desire one (especially if you use front of house support).

It drove me nuts that my original beloved Thunderfunk only had a post EQ out (I don't know what sound company the poster above works with, but a post EQ send is a huge no-no in my world!), but obviously, many don't ever play with front of house support, and some are fanatical enough to carry DI's like the Avalon that are larger and heavier and more expensive than their backline heads.

It drove me nuts that Walter Woods eliminate the direct out on his amps about 10 years ago... many don't care.

I can actually understand the Markbass logic of 'defeaturing' (is that a word) their smallest head, which is probably used mostly by jazz trio guys and small gig guys who never even think about this stuff, and adding some additional features to the more powerful heads that might be used in more 'rock club' settings where some of this stuff becomes more important.

Just musing.... don't even know if I'm making a coherent point