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Timing issues
- Thread starter Bass Boy J
- Start date
can't argue with the "practice" comment! i think the OP might welcome some ideas about what/how to practice. maybe you could help with some practice ideas --- your advice about online "words" notwithstanding.
I came to bass after 20 years of playing fake chord sheet music on my rhythm guitar. Strumming the beat is 90% of what an old-time rhythm guitarist does. That is helped if the song has lyrics. Normally one beat to a lyric word syllable gets a groove going. For example: Hap-py birth-day to you. Happy and birthday get two beats each and the "to you" gets one beat per word.
Try singing with the lead vocalist - under your breath at first and as you do feel the beat join in with the vocalist. If the guys give you the old fisheye, drop back to under your breath.
Good luck.
Try singing with the lead vocalist - under your breath at first and as you do feel the beat join in with the vocalist. If the guys give you the old fisheye, drop back to under your breath.
Good luck.
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play cleanly with no echo, verb or delays.. you can hear exactly what your doing on the strings, without all the "mucky-muck" or mentally count in between each beat. I use to just tap my fingers on the desk to see if the "thump" of my fingers was consistent with the songs rythm, if it were a new song i didn't know off-hand i could clearly hear if was off-time or not..it helped me to remain steady like a clock..just my 2c
Stay relaxed and don’t worry if your a little behind the beat. That’s where you’ll find a lot of bassists if you listen to isolated tracks, and typically where you “should” be depending on the style of music. If you’re rushing, that’s a different story. Playing too much over the best can also be helped by relaxing. It’s all about feel, don’t let it become too much of a mechanical exercise. Above all, smile because you get to play bass!
This is the way….
Also, try this; play, to a click. Can be anything. Move the emphasis of the beat around. Start simple with, say a C major scale in two octaves. Start by hitting the the first part of the beat stronger, so the 1,2,3,4 get a stronger pluck than the e& or the a. Then shift to hitting the 1 lighter and the “a”stronger. Keep working through all the segments. - Another thing, slow down the click, play click e & a click e & a. Also click e click a, click e click a…
If you can get this up to, say 80 bpm, that’s pretty decent. Don’t rush to get there. It’s a marathon not a sprint. It’s more important to get solid than it is to get fast.
I hope I explained this ok. Good luck!
You mention that you practice to metronomes and drum machines. How about playing along with the recorded music?? For my own self, I have worn out two vinyl copies, three cassettes and two CDs of Rush Exit...Stage Left trying to play all those songs. But it was definitely worth it as far as learning to play bass and keys. Thank goodness for mp3s so I don't have to keep buying any more physical media after wearing them out.
Another 'trick' I learned is to try and sing the drum parts of a song. This will greatly help internalize the rhythm of a particular song and really help nail down specific things like swing, odd time, fills, etc. It will be a lot of be-dilly-be-bop-de-poom-poom-pop type singing. Then try singing bass lines, guitar solos (my fave to sing: David Lindleys lap steel solos on Mercury Blues) and horn parts as well.
Another 'trick' I learned is to try and sing the drum parts of a song. This will greatly help internalize the rhythm of a particular song and really help nail down specific things like swing, odd time, fills, etc. It will be a lot of be-dilly-be-bop-de-poom-poom-pop type singing. Then try singing bass lines, guitar solos (my fave to sing: David Lindleys lap steel solos on Mercury Blues) and horn parts as well.
This right here! Need to think like a drummer with a bass in his hands. This get better once you’re on the grid.
In this case, the metronome is your best friend. It doesn't lie, you know when you are off. When I play with a drummer or drum machine, all of the other sounds can mask when I'm off. With a click, there isn't anything else, just you and a click. I will set my tempo and play 1/4 note to warm up, then switch to 1/8 notes. Do this 10-15 minutes a day and you will see a huge improvement. I've been playing almost 40 years and I still do this pretty much every practice. Good luck
My approach is maybe a little different, yes, I am part of the rhythm section, but I’m primarily providing harmonic content, I hope the drummer can provide the ‘pulse’, and I talk to them about that. Mostly, I want to know my part real well, the better I get at that, I hope the better my time gets. I recently worked with a terrible drummer for a while for reasons, even played a show, man I did not like that.
Find good drummers
Find good drummers
Everyone's had this problem. Put your whole heart into it. Reflect deeply. It can't be an insurmountable problem as many do get beyond it
You will too, given time. Hang tough and keep learning. In my mind, relaxation's the key, once you've ordered your thinking, and learnt your lessons.
You need to listen to more music.
Seriously. Great writers are the result of lots of reading.
Listen to some James Brown, and keep listening till you can reliably find the 1…like, randomly pause the music, wait for a bit, restart it, and see how quickly you can identify the 1.
Listen to a bunch of Bob Marley, and find the 3. Why the 3? Because a lot of reggae songs drop the bass drum beat on the 1. Once you’ve found the three, find the 1 without the context of the bass drum.
Listen to jazz. When a song starts to swing, start counting the beats out loud.
Pull up some Scottish highland dancing - jigs and reels - and listen to the music. Figure out what the difference between a jig and a reel is by listening (hint: different time signatures)
Keep doing stuff like this until you train your brain. You’ll know you’re on the right track when you can count to 6 in the style of 6/8, 3/4 or even 2/2.
Also, take some drum lessons. It’ll up your game.
Seriously. Great writers are the result of lots of reading.
Listen to some James Brown, and keep listening till you can reliably find the 1…like, randomly pause the music, wait for a bit, restart it, and see how quickly you can identify the 1.
Listen to a bunch of Bob Marley, and find the 3. Why the 3? Because a lot of reggae songs drop the bass drum beat on the 1. Once you’ve found the three, find the 1 without the context of the bass drum.
Listen to jazz. When a song starts to swing, start counting the beats out loud.
Pull up some Scottish highland dancing - jigs and reels - and listen to the music. Figure out what the difference between a jig and a reel is by listening (hint: different time signatures)
Keep doing stuff like this until you train your brain. You’ll know you’re on the right track when you can count to 6 in the style of 6/8, 3/4 or even 2/2.
Also, take some drum lessons. It’ll up your game.
Yes, to drum lessons. Enough on the Internet so doing it yourself is not out of the question.
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Try this - only the most experienced and skilled can play really well with a metronome going at 4 beats a bar in 4/4 time and make it sound natural and comfortable. It can be very constricting to a new player.
A quick way to make it a little easier and enjoyable is to use the "click" of the metronome on the 2nd and 4th beats. This is exactly where the snare drum is in a standard 4/4 beat. In this exercise the 1st and 3rd beats are not heard and do not get a "click".
If you want to work on a 120 BPM tempo, knock the metronome setting down to half of 120. You get 60. Then get comfortable feeling and counting out each click you hear as a 2 followed by a 4. Again, the 1 and 3 are not audible and are up to you to provide - or not provide.
Like any skill you might like to acquire, there's a period where it will feel uncomfortable and weird, but those feelings will fall away as you get familiar with it. The important thing is to work on it a little every day, consistently. A 3 hour session on a Saturday afternoon twice a month will not help you.
A quick way to make it a little easier and enjoyable is to use the "click" of the metronome on the 2nd and 4th beats. This is exactly where the snare drum is in a standard 4/4 beat. In this exercise the 1st and 3rd beats are not heard and do not get a "click".
If you want to work on a 120 BPM tempo, knock the metronome setting down to half of 120. You get 60. Then get comfortable feeling and counting out each click you hear as a 2 followed by a 4. Again, the 1 and 3 are not audible and are up to you to provide - or not provide.
Like any skill you might like to acquire, there's a period where it will feel uncomfortable and weird, but those feelings will fall away as you get familiar with it. The important thing is to work on it a little every day, consistently. A 3 hour session on a Saturday afternoon twice a month will not help you.
Learn to read music, and keep on practicing with a metronome. There are lots of great method books out there, get an easy one and work your way up to tempo with the metronome.
some great ideas already suggested. practice is key, both on your own and with other musicians who do have solid feel for time.
when using a drum machine, there is an exercise from a Victor Wooten YT vid from one of his classes that I find pretty useful even after 50+ years of gigging and recording all types of music.
Pick a drum machine groove you want to work with. Play with that groove until you're comfortable with a bass line that fits the groove. Does not have to be difficult or complicated, in fact, the simpler the better to begin with.
Assuming a 4 bar groove, once you have that working ok, set your drum machine to drop out for a full bar, say the 3rd bar of 4, but continue to play the groove on bass, when the drum machine comes back see if you are still in sync with it. Work with it until you are in sync. Start slow and simple and work up to faster and more complicated. The section where you are playing with the drum machine gets you synced to the groove, then the drop out forces you to feel the time without the support of the drum machine.
You can change this up in lots of ways too. Play with the drum machine for the full 4 bars, then in the second 4, drop the drum machine for 2 or 3 bars and just keep forcing yourself to hold the groove in time. It's a simple but pretty useful exercise that can help you strengthen your sense and feel for time.
good luck ... music is a life sport, you can do it until the day you die and there's always something new to learn.
when using a drum machine, there is an exercise from a Victor Wooten YT vid from one of his classes that I find pretty useful even after 50+ years of gigging and recording all types of music.
Pick a drum machine groove you want to work with. Play with that groove until you're comfortable with a bass line that fits the groove. Does not have to be difficult or complicated, in fact, the simpler the better to begin with.
Assuming a 4 bar groove, once you have that working ok, set your drum machine to drop out for a full bar, say the 3rd bar of 4, but continue to play the groove on bass, when the drum machine comes back see if you are still in sync with it. Work with it until you are in sync. Start slow and simple and work up to faster and more complicated. The section where you are playing with the drum machine gets you synced to the groove, then the drop out forces you to feel the time without the support of the drum machine.
You can change this up in lots of ways too. Play with the drum machine for the full 4 bars, then in the second 4, drop the drum machine for 2 or 3 bars and just keep forcing yourself to hold the groove in time. It's a simple but pretty useful exercise that can help you strengthen your sense and feel for time.
good luck ... music is a life sport, you can do it until the day you die and there's always something new to learn.
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As a few others have said... COUNT, when you practice.... Until it becomes not a problem. Find the smallest subdivision of the music.. and that's how you count it...
if it's 16ths.. 1 e & a 2 e & a ...etc
if it's 1/8ths... 1 and 2 and..etc
if it's walking 1/4 notes 1 2 3 4 ...etc
if it's 3/4 .. 1 2 3 1 2 3 ...etc
if it's 6/8 123456 123456 ..etc
get the picture?
Count while you just listen to music, too. Keep working at it. You'll get it.
if it's 16ths.. 1 e & a 2 e & a ...etc
if it's 1/8ths... 1 and 2 and..etc
if it's walking 1/4 notes 1 2 3 4 ...etc
if it's 3/4 .. 1 2 3 1 2 3 ...etc
if it's 6/8 123456 123456 ..etc
get the picture?
Count while you just listen to music, too. Keep working at it. You'll get it.
I've been meaning to try this, but all I have is a dirt simple metronome. Any suggestions? Maybe it's something you can do with software like MuseScore, write drum loops with holes in it, or go straight to a DAW like Ableton (that is primarily built around loops)?
Any drum machine or drum machine software you can program and build drum tracks with should be able to do this. I am use a very old iZotope product iDrum (which is out of production) for this purpose. I'm guessing that Ableton would work too .... and probably others too.
good luck, I find it a very helpful part of my practice routine.
good luck, I find it a very helpful part of my practice routine.
