Timing issues

[Twice19]

In a reading enviroment or with an orchestra its pretty "easy" the timing is written on the page, and the conductor cues you. In a band the most important thing when playing with other people is to LISTEN. You know what you're going to play, so it serves no purpose to be wrapped up listening to yourself. Listening is the key to cohesiveness

 

[basseux]

Hi everyone.
I’ve been playing bass for close to three years now, and it seems no matter how many exercises I do with metronomes, drum machines, etc. I just can’t get my timing down, I’ve tried tapping my foot, moving my body to the beat of whatever song I’m playing, but just can’t my timing down. I was wondering if anyone has had this problem and has been able to fix it with some sort of exercise.

First, record yourself because it might be even worse than you think.
A looper pedal is a good tool for practice.
Record your isolated bass when playing over records.

Count the beats loud 1 2 3 4.
You probably won't be able to play the riffs you are used to play, so take simpler ones until you manage to do it.

Use a metronome and wood claves, just matching the click until there is only one sound. Then introduce slight variations of quarter or height note.

 

[Recover9720]

I also think recording in the DAW is the best way to fix your problem. It is essential for you to see your rhythm visually, not just hearing. I don't use a drum machine, only a metronome when practicing rhythm.

Record your lick and find whether your playing is ahead of the beat or behind the beat. If you find it, you can change how you perceive the rhythm. It could take really long time to fix your playing if your playing style has been stuck for a long time, but still, that is the most direct and honest way to improve your skill.

Tapping with your foot or moving your body can make you feel its groove but that doesn't mean it can make you rhythmically accurate.

Start playing with simple quarter notes in 60 bpm first, do not raise the speed unless your recording is tight to the grid. For me, I could play fast line easily but playing slow was a pain. So, if you can't play any line in really low bpm, then at least for me, you might not playing fast line accurately. I started playing chromatic at 60 bpm even though I was playing bass for more than six years at that time. Now, any bpm is no problem at all.

If you realize your problem, then it won't be a big problem soon.

 

[willddd]

Practice.......with the click/metronome on 2 and 4

 

[Alexis Duntov]

I saw a good exercise where you play to a metronome or click that is only the one beat. This way you have to feel and internalize the 2,3,4 and hopefully land on the one.

Exactly this. If the metronome is playing all the beats in the bar, it’s doing the work for you. First try one click per bar, and once you have that down, move to one click every two bars. This will require you to set the click to a very low BPM unless your click allows you to mute clicks within a bar. Also, very important: experiment with putting the click on different beats within the bar. Lately, I’ve been putting it on beat two. So every other bar would sound like “One CLICK three four one two three four one CLICK three four one two three four” etc. Experiment with putting the click on Beats 1, 2, 3, and 4 ( or other beats depending on the meter you are working with). Then for the graduate level challenge, put the click on “and of 1, and of 2”’ etc. One of my teachers gave me this exercise a few months back and it really sharpened my time. I mostly play upright and often there is no drummer, which makes me the timekeeper. It’s been very useful. Even in my soul band playing electric bass, I’m finding myself leading the timekeeping more than I used to.

 

[Acoop]

You're thinking too much and not feeling enough. ... Which is the biggest problem with drums and bass. ... You see, we have to be on, or it sounds off, because 'we're' playing the whole song. ... Relaxation is key. ...
Two years ago I recorded an album of a friends original songs in the studio and now has his own band to play out with live, and we went to hear them last night. ... The bass player wasn't bad but where he decided to place the beat was odd. It caused the songs to rush and lag instead of just flowing. ... The parts weren't hard but placement is important for that style of singer/songwriters tunes.
1 You have to hear it, first in your head, then get it out of your instrument.
2 Try learning the difference between being ahead of the beat and playing behind the beat and not just on the beat. ... Once you do that you have 3-choices where to.
3 Record yourself and seriously listen back to it. ... It's hard, at first, but gets easier as you get better. ... Learn to be your own critic.

 

[sxaxsx]

It was a really long time until someone told me to play my notes on the kick drum beats and lock in with the kick drum. And I know maybe that seems really obvious but it wasn't, I think I use to pay too much attention to the snare. And of course rules like playing on the kick beats are rules to be broken a lot of times, but it is still a good place to start. Once you are able to master that then you can break the rule. But a lot of music and a lot of bassists really are just playing root notes on the kick beats and sometimes that is all the song needs. Start there and maybe the rest will get easier.
One thing that I still kind of struggle with is using a pick. I don't know why, but it feels like when you are playing a video game and their is input lag. That is how a pick feels to me, like I play the note but its not as immediate as when playing with my fingers. This is just me I am sure, but using a pick hurts my feel, I guess I just haven't practiced enough, also maybe because I think a pick is too harsh and so I am holding back a little trying to soften my touch I don't know, just me, but that's the thing we don't know enough about your playing, it could be something little like that that is hurting your timing. Like maybe you aren't committing to the notes as you strike them.
For me I think playing with different people in more genres helped. I started out with one drummer and I never clicked with him, then I found a drummer that I played in several bands with for several years and we just clicked, I never thought about timing. But then after playing with him I was able to go back and play with that original drummer like somehow I just got it now.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Find a good teacher.

The thread was over with the first response.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

Hi everyone.
I’ve been playing bass for close to three years now, and it seems no matter how many exercises I do with metronomes, drum machines, etc. I just can’t get my timing down, I’ve tried tapping my foot, moving my body to the beat of whatever song I’m playing, but just can’t my timing down. I was wondering if anyone has had this problem and has been able to fix it with some sort of exercise.

Have you tried isolating just your plucking/picking hand and working on that? Just muting the strings with your left (assuming you’re right handed) and working on timing with your right? In my opinion, lot of timing goodness or badness comes from right hand technique.

 

[SteveCS]

The thread was over with the first response.

Since the OP has been reluctant to offer up more details on the specifics of the problem - where his/her timing starts to break down, and in what manner and under what circumstances, you are probably right. All this generic stuff like "use a metronome on 2 and 4", "set a drum machine to leave you high and dry for a few random measures", or "get a click track from youtube", isn't really going to be much help. Especially if the issue is related to, let's say, dynamics (ok when pp but less good when ff), right-hand position (ok when s.p. but less so when s.t.), left hand shifting, string crossing or something else. Without that information we are but words on the web, therefore "get a good teacher".

 

[Hectobar]

It is about internalizing your own sense of time. I have found say it, clap it, play it to be the best way for me to internalize time.

ex; pounding out 1/8 notes (a simple example)

say it 1&2&3&4&1&2&3&4&… with a metro/drum machine/etc
Clap it 1&2&3&4&1&2&3&4&… with a metro/drum machine/etc
Play it 1&2&3&4&1&2&3&4&… with a metro/drum machine/etc

by doing it in the above order, you are starting with the easiest and working towards the most difficult. It is a progressive learning process programming your brain.

say it- you are playing it with your mouth without the distraction of physical dexterity.
clap it- you have to apply dexterity without the distraction of notes and technique
Play it- at this point you have a foundation of understanding. Now add in that huge distraction called the bass. Notes, string crossing, tone, etc.

If it was easy everybody would do it! You care enough to ask- that is the big step.
Rock on!

 

[Dirtnap]

I agree that getting an in-person teacher would be best, but let's not preclude the possibility that an online forum may offer a few new ideas to the OP or others who are interested. Of course, until we know more about the OP's playing, all we can do is speculate about timing generally.

 

[willddd]

Teachers can teach things with words and demonstrations. Timing is internal and cannot be conveyed with words or really 'taught'. It can certainly be developed with practice and the use of techniques. Teachers can teach techniques to develop timing (so can internet forums), but in the end, 'if you don't got it, you don't got it'.

 

[basshawk21]

The only thing I can say is...

Find a drummer that likes to or will play to a click. Then learn things together. It will help A LOT.
Oh and keep the music simple at first.

A very close friend of mine was already starting on drums when I bought my first bass. We listened intently to our favorite records and discussed how the bassist and drummer were working together. From that we learned to play well together. "Follow my bass drum here" he would say and other times I would say 'Give me a crash when I hit this note'. We just learned how to become a unit and that is what taught or at least helped me.

 

[willddd]

Since the OP has been reluctant to offer up more details on the specifics of the problem - where his/her timing starts to break down, and in what manner and under what circumstances, you are probably right. All this generic stuff like "use a metronome on 2 and 4", "set a drum machine to leave you high and dry for a few random measures", or "get a click track from youtube", isn't really going to be much help. Especially if the issue is related to, let's say, dynamics (ok when pp but less good when ff), right-hand position (ok when s.p. but less so when s.t.), left hand shifting, string crossing or something else. Without that information we are but words on the web, therefore "get a good teacher".

This is valid, but it assumes that there is a specific issue that needs to be addressed. Someone who naturally has ok time but races fills or adlibs, or drags dynamic changes or certain techniques is going to notice that when using a metronome. Some people just have an issue with basic time, which I assumed the OP was talking about because they mentioned using a metronome and it not helping...and in those situations, just more metronome, not on every beat, awaken the inner timecode.

 

[GreyBeard]

I taught beginning band students for 39 years and I can tell you that people perceive time differently. This was however not the same as playing bass by ear. These youngsters were having to read notes on a page, manipulate their mouth and fingers while buzzing their lips or vibrating a reed all while keeping time with several other students. Most students would slow down when the music became more difficult and speed up when it got easier. You can imagine what that sounds like with 10 beginning band students at 8:00 am. Best advice for you would be to keep on doing what you are doing. Play along with a metronome or utube videos. Get with some friends and jam as often as you can. My time use to be a little shaky until I did an 8 year gig in a group with a organ with a built in drum machine. No timing problems now.

 

[FritzM]

Time is relative, according to Einstein. . .

 

[jbhaugh]

This might sound kind of zen, but I've found playing with a metronome and REALLY focusing on the metronome is important. Once you've really keyed in to the metronome, listen to how your experience of the beat changes when you play different rhythmic figures. I think you'll find that when you really focus on the click you can hear it groove, even though it's just a metronome. YMMV, I guess.

 

[Michael Stanley 2112]

Hi everyone.
I’ve been playing bass for close to three years now, and it seems no matter how many exercises I do with metronomes, drum machines, etc. I just can’t get my timing down, I’ve tried tapping my foot, moving my body to the beat of whatever song I’m playing, but just can’t my timing down. I was wondering if anyone has had this problem and has been able to fix it with some sort of exercise.

I wish I could be more helpful than this, but here goes, from my own experience:

When I first started learning the bass, I was under a lot of pressure. Our bass player had just quit and we were booked for an entire summer at the Jersey Shore (I know, nice problem to have, but too be fair, my wallet was too small to hold all my fifties and my diamond-crusted shoes were too tight ).

That doesn't change the fact that I had a lot to learn in a very little time.

What I did was arrange our practice space so that I could watch the drummer's right hand and his right foot. I found trying to hit notes, when he hit beats was a God-send.

I could do this live because I was also the lead singer, but I had been playing the guitar for about six years at that point and even had experience in a (school) orchestra with a fairly decent instructor/conductor.

I hope I helped and if I can be of more help, feel free to reach out.

 

[fhm555]

Good timing is everything…Practice makes perfect...

While i agree with good timing being everything, i have proof that practice does not make perfect, practice makes permanent.
If you practice it wrong until it becomes automatic, relearning it correctly must wait until you unlearn something so deeply ingrained it occurs absent a conscious thought to initiate the action. Trust me when I say it is much harder to unlearn than it was to learn, especially if you are also trying to relearn it a different way at the same time.
My advice to anyone with technique issues is find a good instructor and learn it right the first time.