Tiny self contained power amp options.

[IvanMike]

Hey there. I’ve been super happy with the Mesa subway series of amplifiers. I especially appreciate the fact that they are 2 ohms stable.

for various applications, I’m just kind of checking to see what’s out there these days in terms of small self-contained power amplifier only units. That is, something I could plug a preamplifier into and then run out to Speaker cabinets.

The requirements are small, lightweight, two ohms stable, preferably 800+ watts give or take at 4/2 ohms.

what do you have experience with?

 

[HaphAsSard]

I’m just kind of checking to see what’s out there these days in terms of small self-contained power amplifier only units. That is, something I could plug a preamplifier into and then run out to Speaker cabinets.

The requirements are small, lightweight, two ohms stable, preferably 800+ watts give or take at 4/2 ohms.

Older threads (in chronological order - most recent is from 2022) about small power amps.
Who's making lightweight half rack power amps?
Looking for a half rack space power amp... Help!?
Small 500-800 watt power amp for pedalboard?
Small Class D amps without a preamp - to fit on a pedalboard?
Tiny amps...tiny power amps?
Small foot print Power Amp
Micro Power Amps....pedal board mountable?
Here's your chance to get a new small form factor power amp made for you!
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/small-class-d-power-amps.1402982/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/portable-power-amps.1437823/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/small-500-to-1000-watt-power-amp.1501978/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/compact-lightweight-power-amp-whats-out-there.1498087/
And the one that brought Quilter on TB:Amps' radar:
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/any-half-rack-power-amp-recommendations.1551730/

 

[agedhorse]

Just note that many of the low volume (boutique) builds are not safety or EMC compliant and do not carry the required certifications.

 

[IvanMike]

Just note that many of the low volume (boutique) builds are not safety or EMC compliant and do not carry the required certifications.

Right on. I mean to be honest for most applications I probably would just use one of my D 800 heads, but I would love to be able to find something with the same sort of module set up as the power section of the D800 as a power amp only with a master volume and 8/4 - 2 switch sort of set up. it could even have a Mesa logo on it ;o)

 

[agedhorse]

Right on. I mean to be honest for most applications I probably would just use one of my D 800 heads, but I would love to be able to find something with the same sort of module set up as the power section of the D800 as a power amp only with a master volume and 8/4 - 2 switch sort of set up. it could even have a Mesa logo on it ;o)

Leaving the preamp off wound actually cost more because if the additional certification costs for a product with little production volume.

I actually built one up to see how much internet there was from the marketing team and it got an immediate thumbs down.

Even the one with a tube driven phase inverter. Just couldn’t make it interesting enough to generate the sales required to invest $40k+ in certification costs.

 

[ad9000]

If not having 2-ohm minimum load capability is not a deal breaker for you, I really like my Demeter Minnie 800D power amp. I use it with various preamps and it sounds great. I've never found it to be lacking in power and I've never had it shut down. I paid $800 used for it years ago, and it looks like used ones still pop up occasionally in that price range.

 

[IvanMike]

If not having 2-ohm minimum load capability is not a deal breaker for you, I really like my Demeter Minnie 800D power amp. I use it with various preamps and it sounds great. I've never found it to be lacking in power and I've never had it shut down. I paid $800 used for it years ago, and it looks like used ones still pop up occasionally in that price range.

It absolutely is a dealbreaker. There’s no need these days for a power amplifier to not be two ohm stable, especially one that has a high power rating.

 

[Killing Floor]

Sumo and Baby are nice quality and the couple Ganz amps I have seen seem to be good. There are a ton of low power board amps for guitar but for higher power it’s slim pickings.

 

[agedhorse]

Sumo and Baby are nice quality and the couple Ganz amps I have seen seem to be good. There are a ton of low power board amps for guitar but for higher power it’s slim pickings.

It’s slim pickings because of the cost and complexity to achieve safety and EMC compliance combined with extremely low sales volume.

Do these products carry safety and EMC (FCC mark in the US/Canada)? If there is no FCC (or Canadian equivalent, though FCC is acceptable in Canada) certification, this means that it is not legal to offer for sale in the US and Canada.

 

[J Wilson]

Minnie 800D | Demeter Amplification (demeteramps.com)

10x6x2, 3.5lbs. Variable line-level input. Does NOT go to 2 ohms. With this, any pedal preamp with line level outs is good, as would be any rack-mount or otherwise mic channel strips.

And you can have it built into . . . .

HBP1-800D Tube Bass Pre/Power Amp (800 watts RMS @ 4 ohms) | Demeter Amplification (demeteramps.com)

. . . and I'd be shocked if these products aren't UL and other standards approved. Demeter gear is serious stuff.

 

[mmon77]

From everything I've seen, the few offerings there are cost almost the same, if not the same, as a quality bass amp would cost. This is when only considering actual, legit products available for sale. I'm sure there are some fake modules that one may be able to buy and fashion something out of, but I'm not counting those.

The reasons for this are probably largely those that Agedhorse mentioned.

As it is, it's more cost-effective to just buy another bass amp with a power-amp in and use that. The other option would be powered cabs, but again, that is a pretty niche market. So you deal with the same high prices due to economies of scale.

 

[Passinwind]

It’s slim pickings because of the cost and complexity to achieve safety and EMC compliance combined with extremely low sales volume.

Do these products carry safety and EMC (FCC mark in the US/Canada)? If there is no FCC (or Canadian equivalent, though FCC is acceptable in Canada) certification, this means that it is not legal to offer for sale in the US and Canada.

The Sumo amps have had a disclaimer on US sales since day one: Boutique

 

[agedhorse]

The Sumo amps have had a disclaimer on US sales since day one: Boutique

There are no safety agency listing marks as well, nor are there the required safety labeling statements on the amp.

This is true for all of the products of this type that I have seen so far.

The cost of full CE/FCC EMC testing and cULus/CB safety testing (with appropriate national differences) can be expected to run about $50k per project and is required to be legal to ship into many markets under the region’s input rules. This is what drives the cost of compliant products.

It’s all “fine” until something bad happens.

 

[micguy]

It's not tiny, but it's not huge:

QSC GX3 425W 2-channel Power Amplifier

What you're describing (an amp without a preamp in it) is a PA amplifier, and there are lot of those that will fill the bill in terms of power and driving 2 ohm loads - assuming you can understand that two 4 ohm capable amplifiers is the same thing as a 2 ohm capable single amplifier. When you're driving 2 ohm loads, 425 watts per channel into 4 ohms (x2) is the same as 850 watts into 2 (x1), assuming you have an even number of cabinets. One advantage to a stereo power amp is you have some built in redundancy.

 

[bherman]

I tried a Sumo and found it to be an underwhelming option. With some help from @agedhorse (I was trying to use it with a Mesa Subway + preamp), we determined that the input was not balanced, thus a good amount of the signal was lost. IMO and experience, you’re better off sticking with the Mesa as a power amp approach.

 

[IvanMike]

It's not tiny, but it's not huge:

QSC GX3 425W 2-channel Power Amplifier

What you're describing (an amp without a preamp in it) is a PA amplifier, and there are lot of those that will fill the bill in terms of power and driving 2 ohm loads - assuming you can understand that two 4 ohm capable amplifiers is the same thing as a 2 ohm capable single amplifier. When you're driving 2 ohm loads, 425 watts per channel into 4 ohms (x2) is the same as 850 watts into 2 (x1), assuming you have an even number of cabinets. One advantage to a stereo power amp is you have some built in redundancy.

Thanks but I’m aware. I sold this one. It was 2 ohms stable per side and & 10 lbs lighter than the one you linked. ~ I’m after a very different animal

 

[lermgalieu]

I actually built one up to see how much internet there was from the marketing team and it got an immediate thumbs down.

if you don’t need the prototype anymore, I’d be happy to take it off your hands ;-)

 

[IvanMike]

if you don’t need the prototype anymore, I’d be happy to take it off your hands ;-)

Get in line!

 

[RevOgre]

Jad Freer Coda goes 950W at 2ohm

Coda – High performance Class G Power Amp | Jad Freer Audio

 

[getBAK]

If you are running into powered speakers, you don't need the power amp at all. I've done many gigs coming off a PreAmp direct into QSC-CP-12's. They sound... REALLY good. Like make me wonder if running an amp is a waste.