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tipflation, tip creep, and tip fatigue

There is no "moral panic," or at least none that I've detected in this thread. This is a legitimate issue. It may be what some may call a "first world problem," but that doesn't mean it's not a problem.
Yeah, those First World Problems are just the worst, aren't they? :D

This is not a "legitimate issue." Hospital nurses and teachers aren't shoving a tablet in your face demanding a tip or else. No new category of work is suddenly demanding tips. Nothing whatsoever stops you from tipping whatever you want, whenever you want. This is just a silly reaction to a prompt on a computer screen.
 
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Yeah, those First World Problems are just the worst, aren't they? :D

This is not a "legitimate issue." Hospital nurses and teachers aren't shoving a tablet in your face demanding a tip or else. No new category of work is suddenly demanding tips. Nothing whatsoever stops you from tipping whatever you want, whenever you want. This is just a silly reaction to a prompt on a computer screen.
The "hospital nurses and teaches" example is a false equivalence. It's a "legitimate issue" because, as the old saying goes, you can get "nickeled and dimed to death" if you're not careful. And it's not a matter of any "new category of work...suddenly demanding tips." It's about specific businesses suggesting tips on an iPad when they didn't before, and suggesting specific percentages, even for things like restaurant takeout.

I've said all I have to say about it, and I'm not interested in an ongoing debate, so I'm out.
 
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It’s out of control in Vancouver.
Two recent personal examples.

Subway: I was prompted for a 18% when paying for my sub.

Liquor store: self serve. I grabbed a bottle and headed to the cashier, also prompted for 18%.

Hell no. It’s pure entitlement at this point. I will tip in a restaurant as long as the service is good. I’ve gladly walked out of a restaurant without tipping because service was so bad and honestly, the wait staff knows everyone tips 20% anyway.

I will die on this hill.
 
FYI, food inflation over the past 2 years is less than 20%. (Reminder: Normally it's more like 2-3% per year.) It may feel like it's 40%, but that's because people absolutely hate paying more for anything and everything. That's why you should go with hard numbers over subjective impressions and flawed memories. (Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers: Food in U.S. City Average | FRED | St. Louis Fed)

You're drawing incorrect conclusions because you're making oversimplified assumptions.

The inflation rate for food is different when comparing grocery store food to restaurant food.

The inflation rate also varies widely depending on where you live. It's been generally higher in the upper Midwest - which is where I live. It's been extremely high in the particular county I live in because it's among the fastest growing counties in the U.S.

I didn't just pull my inflation numbers out of my butt. I know what I've been paying for my chain store pizza and my tap beers over the past few years. For example, the pie that I routinely get once or twice a month has gone from $8 in 2020, to $11 at present. The sandwich that I routinely get at the Cafe down the street from my workplace went from $6 to $8 in that same time period. Those prices represent a roughly 30% to 40% increase spread out over three years.

Meanwhile, the wages that I earn at my job have only increased by 4%.

Someone suggested earlier that perhaps those who don't want to pay double digit annual inflation rates for
food or drinks, plus 18% tips for nonexistent service should just stay home where they belong.

Maybe so. I'm just a dumb peasant working a menial factory job to pay my bills. I really have no business going out to a bar or restaurant once or twice a month to enjoy myself in public. I don't know what I was thinking.

:meh:


Funny how I've never been to any bars that demanded a tip at the exact instant that I've ordered. Even places that use apps to order don't close out the bill before I've received my drink.

I dont know if it's "funny" or not, but just because you aren't familiar with something doesn't mean that it isn't happening somewhere.

I ordered two beers at the bar and was required to pay for them immediately. The machine automatically pushed me through the tip menu and I was forced to choose a tip amount before I could comeplete the purchase.

If you believe that I'm either mistaken about this detail, or just making it up for some reason, then I really don't know what to tell you.

And again, how is that any different than in the past? Sit-down restaurants aren't giving you the check the instant after you order.

I've said nothing about sit down restaurants. This thread is about bars, cafes, and similar establishments.


Giving a big tip was never going to save you from someone so unethical that they'd spit in your food.

You misunderstand. I worked in restaurants and bars for almost 10 years and I know firsthand that such unethical persons do indeed exist, although they're fortunately pretty rare.

These are people who just generally have a bad attitude in life and they bring it with them to their job. They feel entitled to good pay regardless of how well or poorly they do their job and are easily offended, typically reacting with resentment and indignation to any perceived criticism, particularly from patrons, whom they consider ignorant rubes.

Traditionally, bad servers like these are quickly weeded out as they tend to receive a lot fewer tips than good servers. Except when tipping is now required before service. The causal link between good service and good tipping is broken, and along with it, server accountability.

I'll repeat this important point: If the customer is required to commit to a tip amount before the food or drinks are served, and the server sees that he's getting a tip that's less than he feels entitied to, then you run the very real risk that an unethical server with a bad attitude will actually spit in your food. Don't think that doesn't happen.



I think it's well documented that servers Invalid Link Removed

Not by me. I've literally never been rude to a service worker in my life. If I'm displeased for any reason, then I simply adjust my tip amount downward accordingly.

Which I can't do, of course, if the establishment requires tipping in advance of service.

;)




Of course he does, he's just ignoring it. If he irritates too many customers, or the wrong customer, he'll get fired.

By the way, have you ever been outside the US? Many countries either automatically include the tip or don't tip at all. And yet, service isn't a disaster abroad. As long as we're using anecdotes to prove global truths: I've gotten pretty much the same level of service everywhere I go. Care to explain?[/QUOTE]
 
In the majority of coffee shops I've been to, I've been required to pay in full and tip before my drink is received.
When I go to one for the first time, that makes me a little wary since I understand I'm paying for what I hope I get. Was the drink worth the $1 tip? I dunno, I hope so. One thing I know for sure, before my drink is prepared, the barista knows if I tipped or not. I'm fairly certain that little detail factors into any decisions they make as my drink is being prepared.
For the record, it's always been this way. What has changed though is the tip suggestions and the increasingly higher recommended amounts.
I don't think that's because anyone feels entitled though. I think that's a result of the ongoing dumbing down of people to where computing basic math like percentages is not something as many people can do on the fly in their head as in years past.
I come from a generation where you had to know and understand math. If you didn't, that was frowned on. Nowadays, it's ok since computers and cell phones do it for you.

-Mike
 
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Someone suggested earlier that perhaps those who don't want to pay double digit annual inflation rates for
food or drinks, plus 18% tips for nonexistent service should just stay home where they belong.
The problem with this line of thinking is that if they continue to price people out of purchasing, they will go out of business. And that hurts everyone.

That said, staying home may be the only way to combat this. Pre-pandemic we used to go out several times a week. Now we might go out for a meal two or three times a month.

I understand that businesses everywhere are hoping to make up for a couple of years of lost revenue. But those that didn't go out of business while we were all staying home are in danger of pricing themselves out of business now. And it's not just service businesses - prices are high everywhere. When people stop buying because they can no longer afford to buy, it's going to be a sad day.
 
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In the majority of coffee shops I've been to, I've been required to pay in full and tip before my drink is received.
When I go to one for the first time, that makes me a little wary since I understand I'm paying for what I hope I get. Was the drink worth the $1 tip? I dunno, I hope so. One thing I know for sure, before my drink is prepared, the barista knows if I tipped or not. I'm fairly certain that little detail factors into any decisions they make as my drink is being prepared.
For the record, it's always been this way. What has changed though is the tip suggestions and the increasingly higher recommended amounts.
I don't think that's because anyone feels entitled though. I think that's a result of the ongoing dumbing down of people to where computing basic math like percentages is not something as many people can do on the fly in their head as in years past.
I come from a generation where you had to know and understand math. If you didn't, that was frowned on. Nowadays, it's ok since computers and cell phones do it for you.

-Mike
It's so easy to calculate 20%, too. Just take away a decimal place and then double that. 20% of $50 is 5x2 which is $10. 20% of $73.54 is 7.35x2 or roughly $15 if you don't want to think about it too hard. You don't have to be exact.
 
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What's so stupid is that when a gratuity-inclusive system (or higher wages with no gratuity, like Europe) for restaurants is mentioned, people say "but the food will be more expensive!!" Even if they'll be paying the same price they were always paying after tipping.



In my opinion, relying on tipping as a significant component of employee wages is an outdated relic of the past and is an idea that should be retired.

If the service industry would simply eliminate tips and provide a fair hourly wage to their employees, everyone would be better off, especially the workers.
 
title of thread reminds me of warning signs of some medication i saw on tv
Not sure if its causation or correlation
Titetwadiya.jpg
 
In my opinion, relying on tipping as a significant component of employee wages is an outdated relic of the past and is an idea that should be retired.

If the service industry would simply eliminate tips and provide a fair hourly wage to their employees, everyone would be better off, especially the workers.

That's all fine, but I'd bet that a good server at a low base rate + tips makes more than a server at a set minimum wage.
 
That's all fine, but I'd bet that a good server at a low base rate + tips makes more than a server at a set minimum wage.


Only potentially, and only sometimes.

In my experience, tipping is a double edged sword. When it works in your favor, it's fantastic. When it doesn't, you end up working a whole lot of hours for less than what the kid flipping burgers at McDs makes.
 
@MJ5150 I certainly don't mind tipping, and I certainly don't mind tipping well for good service. But I DO mind the idea of tipping before you are served - that's blackmail.

I'm with you on that.
I don't mind it as much in places we frequent because I know the staff and I know what I'm getting.Thankfully I don't often go beyond my regular joints.
I remember one time we wanted to use the app Instacart. It added the tip when we were in the checkout, before anything was even delivered. We decided against using the app. Later online I found a series of web forum threads from Instacart staff talking about how they jerk around the customers who don't tip up front.
I don't get it at all how one can expect a tip before they even do anything.

-Mike
 
At the ballpark, there are self serve kiosks where you can get drinks and snacks. There are a couple of employees there watching to make sure nobody steals anything and open the alcoholic drinks. We get the drinks, scan them, put the card in, and it asks for a tip. What are we tipping for? Opening our beer? It would be easy to carry back to the seats if it weren't open. On top of that, the beer is ridiculously expensive. Yeah, that's going to be a $0 tip.
 
That's all fine, but I'd bet that a good server at a low base rate + tips makes more than a server at a set minimum wage.
As a former server, I must say this is HIGHLY variable. If the restaurant's business is seasonal, the experience could be like mine was at one place: Working 5-6 nights a week making good money in season, but only getting 3 nights in winter--and often dead enough that 1 or more servers had to "volunteer" to go home.

Also, it is extremely rare for servers to be eligible for benefits of any kind--insurance, days off, sick days, retirement plan, etc.
 
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