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Tips for a beginner's purchase

Hi,

I am looking to buy an amp for rehearsals and perhaps even live shows. I really have no idea what is 'good' and what is not and I don't even know what kind of amp I should get. I've been using a 15 watts amp for the last 5 years (I was just playing on my own, not in a band), but now that I will play in a Metal band, so I need a better amp (obviously). I was told that a 80 Watts or 100 Watts amp would be enough, but some other people told me otherwise. I'd like to pay max. $350 for one. Any brands to consider and some to avoid?

Thanks alot!

Raskolnikov
 
Play a lot of amps. Pick one you really click with. $350 will not get much new, you will do better in the used market. Do not expect to be able to do much even there volume wise. 80 to 100 watts is nothing in the world of bass, a 100 watt bass amp will get drowned out by a 20 watt guitar amp. It just takes a lot more power to push out low end. For a metal band I would say 500 watts is the minimum and that will get you an amp suitable only for jamming with the rare guitarist and drummer who play only as loud as they absolutly must. With your standard issu "mesa cranked to 11" metal guitarists you'll need closer to 1000 to practice and still will likely need PA support at gigs.
 
hetsscaryguy said:
whats amps are your guitarists using? and what power are they puttingout? and how loud is your drummer?

Marshall amp, 50 Watt. Drummer is relatively loud, don't know how to put it on a scale though.

Play a lot of amps. Pick one you really click with. $350 will not get much new, you will do better in the used market. Do not expect to be able to do much even there volume wise. 80 to 100 watts is nothing in the world of bass, a 100 watt bass amp will get drowned out by a 20 watt guitar amp. It just takes a lot more power to push out low end. For a metal band I would say 500 watts is the minimum and that will get you an amp suitable only for jamming with the rare guitarist and drummer who play only as loud as they absolutly must. With your standard issu "mesa cranked to 11" metal guitarists you'll need closer to 1000 to practice and still will likely need PA support at gigs.

Yeah, I'm not looking much into new gear at all. 80 to 100 watts is nothing? Then what is the point of them even to exist? lol. No but I mean... If you play alone, all you need is maybe 30 watts (I was satisfied with my 15 watts) and if, according to what you say, 500 is the minimum, who uses the 100 W? jazz players?

1000 watts? Ok... I think the question now is whether I will even be able to hear following practices and not what I should get heh.

Well... I could go up to $500 for the price. Anything decent I can find for that price by any chance? I saw an Ampeg 150 w on ebay recently, but I guess that isn't enough.

Thanks for the help guys,

R.
 
Smaller amps are fine for low volume applications: practicing by yourself, playing acoustic based gigs, etc.

You said you play metal, metal guitars have a lot of crunchy mid and high end, and metal guitarists tend to really like to hear themselves. Naturally this means you'll need more power for those applications, especially since bass amps need lots of headroom to sound good AND loud at the same time.

I used a 100 watt Peavey combo for many years as my main practice amp. It worked fine, but only because the people I played with were cool about keeping their volume down. This is the ideal situation anyway, there is really no reason to play loud when practicing. Sadly this happens less often, and most bassists I know find themselves constantly fighting for volume.

In the price range you cited I think a Peavey TNT115 (same model I had, they run around $400 new) is a very good buy. They have a very versitile tone, can get loud enough for small practice and most importantly are incredibly reliable. I dropped mine down a flight of stairs TWICE and the only damage was the logo. Eventually I blew the speaker, but only after 7 years of near constant abuse.

I even gigged with it going direct into the board and letting the house PA do the work. I'm actually considering getting another one now as a "home amp" so I don't have to a stack to practice.
 
Clarification: there really is no cut and dry "this is enough" when you are talking about bass amps. Our equipment is very situation due to the way low frequency sounds propagate and interact with the environment. I've played in situations where a 1200 watt SVT4 Pro was barely audible over a 30 watt guitar amp. There are tons of variables such as EQ, environment, cab and speaker efficiency, etc. The 500 watt figure came out of what I feel would be a reliable number for most metal band practice situations. However you can get by with less if you tailor the other things to your situation correctly.

Also you cannot go entirely by raw numbers. 500 watts from one amp will sound like 2000 from another. That's why its very important for you to play as many amps as you can, even ones you can't afford or probably would never consider buying, so you can at least get a good idea of what works and what doesn't for the way you play.

Just wanted to clear that up because I realized my first post was a little misleading.
 
As a general rule if a bass plays with a guitar and band, the bass wattage should be 4-5 times as much (thats with some head room). And especially if its heavy metal stuff. You are going to get drowned out and might blow your speaker trying to keep up. I would suggest getting something at around 200 watts, definately more than 100 though.
 
ive rocked with a fender bxr300c combo.. its a 15" 8 ohm speaker and 200 watts at 8 ohms head and it was alright against a loud guitarist (alright, not great) but with an 8 ohm extension cab it puts out 300 or 350 watts (4 ohms) and it was plenty loud... it was good with 2 loud ass guitaists playing marshall half stacks too...

if i were you i would look for something along these lines... a combo that does 200 watts at 8 ohms or 300 watts at 4 ohms... get a used one and then you can get a cheap 8 ohm extention cab without haning to save too much cash... actually you can probably get a combo and a cab for 500$...

if you dont go that route (combo) and you end up buying a head and cab, you might want to consider a 4 ohm 4x10 cabinet and a head with around 300 watts at 4 ohms...

i always look in pawn shops and used music gear stores.


where are you located?
 
I am almost in the same position... I have been playing for two years with my 15 watt amp and a drummer... we almost make it work... I can hear it... but he can't... So I was looking for a nice 100 Watter. I was going to buy the Fender Bassman 100. It's 100 Watts and it's 350. It is also 25 pounds, which is a plus and has a lot of nice features... you should check it out.

Invalid Link Removed (I like to make my links fun...)

You can also find it on MusiciansFriend.com, that's where I would buy it from... free shipping.

I don't know about the whole getting drowned out by the 20 watt guitar amp... but 100 watts shouldn't be used to play at a packed stadium... but at a coffee house... Yea it'll work... They should have a PA that you can hook up to.
 
OK... Some questions:
What cab does the Marshall 50 watter have? Or is it a combo? Is it all tube? How loud is your drummer? How many strings do you have? In your price range based on what I've read on the thread, you should look used for a good 410 and a decent head. You might be able to find one locally. I'd say go for at least 300 or 400 watts minimum, but keep in mind that it takes 10X as many watts to be 2X as loud. The volume depends more on the cabs.
 
Raskolnikov said:
Marshall amp, 50 Watt. Drummer is relatively loud, don't know how to put it on a scale though.



Yeah, I'm not looking much into new gear at all. 80 to 100 watts is nothing? Then what is the point of them even to exist? lol. No but I mean... If you play alone, all you need is maybe 30 watts (I was satisfied with my 15 watts) and if, according to what you say, 500 is the minimum, who uses the 100 W? jazz players?

1000 watts? Ok... I think the question now is whether I will even be able to hear following practices and not what I should get heh.

Well... I could go up to $500 for the price. Anything decent I can find for that price by any chance? I saw an Ampeg 150 w on ebay recently, but I guess that isn't enough.

Thanks for the help guys,

R.
for $500 behringer 300w head and behringer 4x10. that will do for te moment and practicing, then upgrade the head when you can and then upgrade the cabs after that

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that amp wil give you about 200w at 8ohms so that should be plenty to take on a 50w marshall and your drummer.
 
hey look,

i wrote a handy little guide! :p :D ;) :hyper:

So, you're looking for a new bass setup for your church band (or any band)? With sooooo many options assaulting you as you walk into your local musical instrument super duper mall, where should you start? How much power do you need? How big do your speakers need to be? Is bigger necessarily better? In this installment, we'll examine some particular needs for a bass rig, and then help you choose the pieces of equipment that will work best.

- the building blocks -

First off, let’s take a look at the basic building blocks of a bass rig. Other than your bass, there's the preamp section, the power section, and the speaker. Sure, you can get a bunch of effects to liven up a boring sound, but getting a good-sounding basic setup should be your primary concern.

The sound / signal from your bass travels to the preamp, where most of your tone- shaping occurs. You'll find the volume, EQ, and the like here. Think of it as the “brain” or control center of your bass rig. The sound, after being shaped at the preamp, then passes into the power section. Here, the signal is “amplified” or made louder. So, the bigger and more wattage the power section has, the louder the rig will be. And of course, finally, the signal reaches the speakers, where you can hear what your bass sounds like. Usually the speaker is housed in what's known as the cabinet, or “cab” for short. Also, you'll see descriptions like “2x10,” which just means two speakers of 10” size. The most common sizes are the 4x10, 2x10, 1x12, and 1x15.

The most common setup is the “combo,” or combination setup, where all three of these sections are in one tidy and neat box. Combos are convenient and more affordable for most players. Often times, there's also the “head,” which is the preamp and power amp in one convenient box, where the speaker cab is separate. A more serious investment would be getting a separate preamp, power amp and speaker cab, but we'll tackle that in a later, more in-depth look.

- how much power? -

So, how many watts do you actually need? Well, it’s important to realize that bass frequencies need a lot more power to reproduce low, low sounds that can be heard over the rest of the band. So, many bassists go by the “4x” rule, which means the bassist's setup should have at least 4 times the wattage of the guitarist. For example, if the guitarist is using a 30 watt amp, you'll need at least 120 watts to be heard and not be dwarfed by him. This rule only applies if your guitarist is cranking his amp to the max. So, it’s more a safety precaution just in case he/she feels like rockin' out one day. But more realistically, the guitar amp will only be turned up to 3 or 4 on the volume dial, and you'll set your volume accordingly.

- which speakers? -

As for speaker cabs, let’s take a look at how your bass sound is affected by the speaker size. There are three general sizes; the 10”, 15”, and the more recent 12”. The general rule is the smaller the speaker, the more punch, clarity and definition the overall sound will have. Vice versa, the bigger the speaker, the more natural bottom-end. Why? Because a smaller speaker moves much more quickly than a larger speaker, thus your sound responds much more quickly, but at the sacrifice of natural bottom-end. Also, the more speakers, the bigger the natural bottom-end. Not only is the sound louder, but perceptibly bigger.

A single 10” speaker, while very punchy and articulate, has very little low end, and at most, should only be used in pairs like in a 2x10 cab. One 15” alone gives you lots of big, cushy bottom end, but its sound is too pillowy to really punch or project thru a dense mix. For example, in a large band, where there are lots of instruments onstage that compete against the bass sound, a 2x10 will fare far better than a larger 1x15 cab, which won’t cut or punch through nearly as clearly. With that said, in a much smaller band, like a trio or quartet, that 15” speaker really fills out a rather empty sound group.

There's also the new 12” speaker which has been gaining ground, and while a new phenomenon, has quickly become a favorite among many players. It sort of has a little bit of both of the attributes of the 10” and 15” speakers. The 12” has a nice punch that's better than the 15” speaker, and yet, a single 12” speaker has more low-end than a single 10” speaker, allowing it to be used alone in one cab.

Now this is only scratching the surface of the many aspects that can be explored in a bass rig. In the next installment, we'll go through the “modular” setup, and explore more options and possibilities in-depth.
 
Boozy said:
ive rocked with a fender bxr300c combo.. its a 15" 8 ohm speaker and 200 watts at 8 ohms head and it was alright against a loud guitarist (alright, not great) but with an 8 ohm extension cab it puts out 300 or 350 watts (4 ohms) and it was plenty loud... it was good with 2 loud ass guitaists playing marshall half stacks too...

if i were you i would look for something along these lines... a combo that does 200 watts at 8 ohms or 300 watts at 4 ohms... get a used one and then you can get a cheap 8 ohm extention cab without haning to save too much cash... actually you can probably get a combo and a cab for 500$...

if you dont go that route (combo) and you end up buying a head and cab, you might want to consider a 4 ohm 4x10 cabinet and a head with around 300 watts at 4 ohms...

i always look in pawn shops and used music gear stores.


where are you located?

I am located in Quebec, Canada.

What cab does the Marshall 50 watter have? Or is it a combo? Is it all tube? How loud is your drummer? How many strings do you have? In your price range based on what I've read on the thread, you should look used for a good 410 and a decent head. You might be able to find one locally. I'd say go for at least 300 or 400 watts minimum, but keep in mind that it takes 10X as many watts to be 2X as loud. The volume depends more on the cabs.

The guy has a combo amp. The drummer is pretty loud, but not excessively. I have a 4-string bass.Yeah, I think I will look into a 300 watts...I was looking at 123music and ebay but with that kind of equipment, the shipping price will be ridiculous.

Any brands that are more to recommend than others? I heard that Peavy is a good amp for Metal.
 
Raskolnikov said:
80 to 100 watts is nothing? Then what is the point of them even to exist? lol.

That's actually a good question. For playing in a rock band anything less than 100 watts is just a practice amp, but not everybody plays in rock bands. If you're doing a coffee house gig or something 100 watts is more than plenty, but there's no way a 100 watt amp with a pair of 10's or a single 15 is going to fill a nightclub (of any size) with rock and roll unless you have PA support.
 
QUOTE:
Any brands that are more to recommend than others? I heard that Peavy is a good amp for Metal.

Brands are so subjective, they are for the most part all good, but noticing different nuances in tone and what you like takes a bit of experience with different models in different settings. Sorry, thats not useful to your question, but its true. As far as Peavey? They are great amps albeit somewhat sterile tonewise. But in a band situation you lose some of these subtle nuances in tone anyway with everyone else playing and don't hear things as well as practicing on your own. I've found nice EQ settings that sound terrific while practicing only to reajust when playing with the others because it didn't work as well in that environment.

Back to Peavey. The TNT combo box is one of those "good value for the buck" units because they are simple, amazingly rugged and put out surprisingly good volume. More than their power rating would suggest in my experience. They are easy to find, and very affordable.
 
Go for something used. Look local for the cab, but you can probabally have a head shipped as it is not too big. Go for at least about 300 watts, probabally through a 212, 410, or 215 (or 2 210s if thats what you find). I find that most Berhinger cabs aren't up to par, but I've never really tried out their head. Peavey gear is decent, and in your budget if you can find some loud Peavey gear go for it. Here are some helpful classifieds:
www.harmony-central.com
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http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html
Good luck!
 
was joining /forming a metal band. $ was tight so some compromise neede to be made, but it worked in the end.
First he had enough for a low priced pre-amp, we found a Yamaha for $100, which is older but still functional by most standards. Next came a power amp, one of the dads dusted off an old CS800, now they are not the worlds finest sonically,and are way too heavy by current standards, and pros do not use them, but they do produce power and are stone cold reliable. the transistors are available everyplace. The dad sold this for about $200, I help the kid build a rack cabinet out of scrap wood and some pre drilled iron.

We helped do a role your own 4x12 cab that ended up looking so cool, it was decided another was needed and you guessed it we did a slant top, no piping or anything fancy. A quick search of the local recone shops and an Ebay purchase and bingo a 4x12 (the speakers were no dream, a couple of pyles and two other non matching 12's. The slant was left empty for a while and just hauled around for looks. Aaahhhh youth, I remember when we used B25B heads for barbells.

I do think that to do a cab well and with fairly decent speakers is probably close to the Avatar costs and maybe even more, goof a couple of cuts and the wood starts to get pricey.

Last I heard he did have matching 12's in all eight spots. and was saving for a new or close to new, better, lighter power amp.

Now granted I wouldn't have wanted to move the rig, but it worked and all is upgradeable as funding allows. The way that he pounds the heck out the bass I am not sure ulra high fi gear would have been much better.