Tips for soundcheck and running sound while playing bass?

[EricOnTheBass]

Our cover band does our own sound, and I have been elected as the soundman. Being the bass player and the sound man simultaneously has been challenging to say the least, but we are making progress. I got myself a Behringer XR18, which I can run onstage with a tablet. I have wireless on my bass, so I can also walk out into the bar and make adjustments there.

Obviously making adjustments during the show has to be a rare occurrence, so I want to make sure our sound check gets as close to the mark as possible. For those of you that have done this before, do you have any wisdom to impart?

 

[ShadowGroover]

Don't do it.

Could you imagine a sound engineer trying to play the bass while actively mixing a performance at the sound desk?

Musicians often create great mixes, so it's likely you can do it, just not while playing in the band.

Either find someone to mix your band, or another bassist to play while you mix.

 

[Russ Frost]

Don't do it

This.

 

[EricOnTheBass]

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of this idea either. But I couldn't convince everyone in the band to take a pay cut. They are not "serious" enough to want to give the largest share to someone to run sound, even if we would sound better. And I would rather do it myself than let the other guys in the band do it, they don't have the mindset. There are very few good sound guys in my town, and the good ones are booked months in advance.

So for now, at least, there's no other option. In the summer when my son is home from college, I'll recruit him

 

[Bullitt5135]

Don't do it

This. If at all possible, figure out how to get a soundman to run FOH.

If you insist on doing it yourself:

• After all gear is setup and input gains are set, I push monitors and mains to feedback so I can ring out the system with the graphic EQ. This sucks when its a bar full of people, but the alternative is fighting feedback all night.
• I insist on low stage volume. Don't touch amps after input gain is set.
• You have an XR18. Insist that your bandmates learn how to adjust their own mix.
• Educate your bandmates how to soundcheck properly. For me that means take your spot and pay attention to me. Don't play a note or say a word unless I ask you to do something. No noodling. No talking amongst yourselves or wandering off while I'm troubleshooting something. In reality, my bandmates always lose focus within the first 30 seconds. It p's me off, and I start a lot of gigs stressed out and in a bad mood and my playing suffers. And that's coming from somebody with a lot of gigs (bass and FOH sound) gigs under his belt. Get a soundman and 98% of the stress goes away.
• I do drums first, then bass + drums (playing wireless out in the listening area). Then guitars...I like to have the rhythm section just jam a simple blues line in A so I can occasionally thump along while mixing.
• Lastly vocals, preferably a no-brainer song with harmony vocals. If there's more than one lead singer, then each takes a verse if possible.
• I hate playing thru entire songs. This isn't rehearsal. Learn you $*% before the gig.
• I like to have a sound meter handy to check dB level. I usually shoot for up to 95 dB 15 ft from the stage.
• Digital mixer is nice because you can save settings between shows and venues. This is just a starting point though...you still need to check and adjust everything. Save your settings after soundcheck in case you have a catastophic failure.
• Even if you don't touch anything, the sound in a room changes throughout the night. Start adding bodies and crowd noise, and your perfect soundcheck mix is useless.
• Mic bleed is a common problem. The fewer open mics you have on stage, the better. Use the gates on your XR18 (hard to do on the fly while you are playing). Consider using mics with on/off switch for occasional backing vocals. Point guitar cabs away from vocal mics.
• Excessive compression and vocal FX can risk feedback. Use them sparingly. In tough rooms, I often just turn off the FX.

We have a soundman on 50% of our gigs (we do a mix of bar-type gigs and outdoor events). Our guy is a full time pro engineer. My mixer is dialed in and settings are saved between shows. That being said, if nobody is riding the faders during the show, it never fails that someone complains about something being too loud or not loud enough. It's annoying and distracting as hell. That's what I say get a soundman. You're a bass player, right? Make your main thing the main thing.

Just a thought. Do you have a buddy in another band who could run sound for you – and in return, you offer to run sound on his gigs?

 

[Bullitt5135]

I forgot to say HPF (High pass filter) is your friend. Cutting everything below 125Hz besides bass and kick drum is a good starting point.

 

[Wasnex]

Our cover band does our own sound, and I have been elected as the soundman. Being the bass player and the sound man simultaneously has been challenging to say the least, but we are making progress. I got myself a Behringer XR18, which I can run onstage with a tablet. I have wireless on my bass, so I can also walk out into the bar and make adjustments there.

Obviously making adjustments during the show has to be a rare occurrence, so I want to make sure our sound check gets as close to the mark as possible. For those of you that have done this before, do you have any wisdom to impart?

I used to do this with an analog board. I ran sound check with the board out front. After I got everything dialed in, I went up on stage and the keyboard player went out and dialed in the bass.

After that we moved the mixer on stage and I did final adjustments to my monitor mix. It's useful to set your monitor mix post fader. That way when anything gets grossly out of balance you have a reference. It's not perfect but it's better than nothing.

Check guitar and keyboard solo patches for level matching

Mute effect during talkovers.

Whoever sings lead gets a 6-10dB bump. You may need to adjust other sound sources for some songs.

This can work fairly well if band members cooperate and avoid adjusting levels on their gear. If they need more me the show, adjustments must be done in the mixer rather than turning up the signal before it reaches the mixer.

A related problem is some people tend to sandbag during soundcheck by playing or singing with less intensity. Then when the show starts, there is a massive jump in their signal level. This can be unintentional or intentional. Some people see it as a way to be mixed hotter. Individuals tend to be fairly consistent, so with practice you can learn to compensate to some degree.

Ideally you should ring the system for feedback everytime it is set up. But of course you should clear the room and use hearing protection.

The first sound check tends to be pretty long. Once the system is dialed in, soundcheck goes quicker, providing the sound sources are relatively consistent from gig to gig. If using wedges, start subsequent sound checks by setting output levels for each monitor. This is necessary because appropriate levels can vary significantly from one setup location to the next. Next, normalize the head amps on each channel strip before making any other adjustments. If you restore balance to the main mix, it tends to get the monitor mixes relatively close. From this point, fine tune as you see fit.

 

[Bullitt5135]

OP, how much experience to you have with live sound engineering? What types of venues do you play? Tell us about your band and the type of music you play.

 

[Russ Frost]

I've done both in the past just out of necessity and it was really frustrating. I couldn't focus on either task and do it well due to being distracted by the other. If you can't find a dedicated person to run sound, the best advice I can offer is to get things sorted the best you can during sound check and then then let it ride and focus on playing the gig. Between the two, most people will overlook a mix that is less than ideal but everyone will notice if you mess up on bass because your are messing with some other piece of gear

 

[Bullitt5135]

Between the two, most people will overlook a mix that is less than ideal but everyone will notice if you mess up on bass because your are messing with some other piece if gear

Good point. In my experience, people never hesitate to come right up to the stage in the middle of the song to tell you they can't hear the vocals or the guitar, or "it's too loud, can you turn it down." As a matter of fact, this happens on just about every gig...even when we have a FOH engineer. All the more reason to do whatever it takes to get somebody to run sound for you. Bandmates that don't want to take less pay for the band to sound good? Don't even get me started.

 

[Wasnex]

Running sound is often a thankless and stressful job....even when sound is your sole responsibility. However, I am pretty picky about sound and usually find it even more stressful when another band member does the job.

 

[Wasnex]

In my experience, people never hesitate to come right up to the stage in the middle of the song to tell you they can't hear the vocals or the guitar, or "it's too loud, can you turn it down."

Let's keep in mind that tastes vary by individual. Ask 6 people to build the perfect mix, and chances are each mix will sound a bit different. People sometimes get bounced for harassing the audio tech.

 

[Minimalist]

I have done that a few times and key is to tell your band mates to not increase their volume ones the show starts.

Since the drummer WILL get louder once warmed up the band will get louder. Account for that.

If anybody complaints, tell them to STFU. well, maybe use some nicer words.

 

[EricOnTheBass]

OP, how much experience to you have with live sound engineering? What types of venues do you play? Tell us about your band and the type of music you play.

Right. I have very little experience with live sound engineering, but I did do some studio work as an engineer years ago. The equipment has changed a lot, but the fundamentals are still the same. I'd say I'm an advanced novice, lol. I find it very interesting and I want to get better at it.

Our band plays rock and Latin rock covers, mostly from the 80's and 90's. We play mostly pub-style places that serve lunch and dinner with live bands and DJ's in the evening. Not very large rooms, but a lot bigger than your average dive bar. We run my XR18 into a Behringer NU3000DSP power amp and into two sub/main stacks. I don't know the specs of the speakers, but they are Behringers. I think the subs are 18's and 12's with horns on top. It's plenty loud and deep, in my opinion.

Drums, bass, one guitar, keys, and a female vocalist. The drummer and guitarist sing backups and each of them sing lead on a few tunes. Our vocalist employs a harmonizer on some tunes, she controls it on-stage. Most of our songs are guitar-based, and one of the itchy points is the fact that the keyboardist is not great at complimenting songs that don't have a pre-baked keyboard part. So I have to balance making him heard so he is happy, while not turning him up enough for his clanging to annoy everyone.

We are all using IEMs since I got the XR18, and everyone has their own aux mix to control as they see fit. So I don't have to worry about monitors.

Running sound is often a thankless and stressful job....even when sound is your sole responsibility. However, I am pretty picky about sound and usually find it even more stressful when another band member does the job.

Oh yes, I am with you. The keyboardist was doing it before me, and I never saw him move a slider. He used the gain knobs to adjust the mix. Half the channels were clipping. I just can't.

I have done that a few times and key is to tell your band mates to not increase their volume ones the show starts.

Since the drummer WILL get louder once warmed up the band will get louder. Account for that.

If anybody complaints, tell them to STFU. well, maybe use some nicer words.

I'm still getting adjusted, but once I get everyone to say "hey this sounds pretty good!" then I'm going to tell them that if they want me to continue to run the sound, then I am the sound man. I'm open to constructive criticism, but I'm not making ice cream sundaes were everyone gets exactly what they want. They have to trust me and get out of the way. Once of the reasons I got the XR18 is because there are no physical controls. The band members can no longer just walk up to the board during the show and adjust things. Yes, they were doing that. I am the captain now.

 

[Wasnex]

The band members can no longer just walk up to the board during the show and adjust things.

If you don't know:

The XR18 can be set up so individuals can adjust levels for their (assigned) monitor mix from a phone or tablet.

The XR18 can also feed P16-HQ personal monitor mixers (thru Ultranet). These give each person pretty much full control over their assigned mix.

 

[EricOnTheBass]

If you don't know:

The XR18 can be set up so individuals can adjust levels for their (assigned) monitor mix from a phone or tablet.

The XR18 can also feed P16-HQ personal monitor mixers (thru Ultranet). These give each person pretty much full control over their assigned mix.
View attachment 7145093

I've got them all set up with the phone app to adjust their mixes, and they are pretty happy with it so far.

 

[Bullitt5135]

It can be helpful to get a multitrack recording at a gig, then use that to do a quick "virtual soundcheck" at the next gig. You can also fire up your mixer at home and dig into your EQ, gate, and compression settings...then save that as a template. Of course, this is not a replacement for adjusting at the gig, but it can give you a much better starting point.

The other thing I'd emphasize is be as organized as possible. Have your gear sorted out and stored in a way that's easy to deploy at the gig. Write up a checklist. Draw up a stage plot. Delegate if you trust your bandmates. Keep all cabling neat and tidy. Use stage snakes to reduce clutter, etc.

Most importantly: GET THERE EARLY. I can go from curb to downbeat in an hour, but I'm usually at the venue 2-3 hours before start time. Nothing worse than wrestling with the PA when start time has come and gone and you have a room full of people. Be very clear with bandmates about load-in, setup, and soundcheck times.

Identify a couple of songs per set that the keyboard player can walk out front and check to see if anything is really out of whack. He doesn't have to adjust anything, but he can tell you if something sounds wrong.

 

[Aloe]

yeah. I like to use a looper. I turn some chop on, convince the band to join and then go listening and tweaking stuff.

 

[bobfarabaugh]

Don’t do it If at all possible. That’s why I quit last band. You will grow tired of the hassle quickly and gigs will become less fun. Oh, guitar player always sandbags sound check and gets 50% louder by second set.

 

[logdrum]

This. If at all possible, figure out how to get a soundman to run FOH.

If you insist on doing it yourself:

• After all gear is setup and input gains are set, I push monitors and mains to feedback so I can ring out the system with the graphic EQ. This sucks when its a bar full of people, but the alternative is fighting feedback all night.
• I insist on low stage volume. Don't touch amps after input gain is set.
• You have an XR18. Insist that your bandmates learn how to adjust their own mix.
• Educate your bandmates how to soundcheck properly. For me that means take your spot and pay attention to me. Don't play a note or say a word unless I ask you to do something. No noodling. No talking amongst yourselves or wandering off while I'm troubleshooting something. In reality, my bandmates always lose focus within the first 30 seconds. It p's me off, and I start a lot of gigs stressed out and in a bad mood and my playing suffers. And that's coming from somebody with a lot of gigs (bass and FOH sound) gigs under his belt. Get a soundman and 98% of the stress goes away.
• I do drums first, then bass + drums (playing wireless out in the listening area). Then guitars...I like to have the rhythm section just jam a simple blues line in A so I can occasionally thump along while mixing.
• Lastly vocals, preferably a no-brainer song with harmony vocals. If there's more than one lead singer, then each takes a verse if possible.
• I hate playing thru entire songs. This isn't rehearsal. Learn you $*% before the gig.
• I like to have a sound meter handy to check dB level. I usually shoot for up to 95 dB 15 ft from the stage.
• Digital mixer is nice because you can save settings between shows and venues. This is just a starting point though...you still need to check and adjust everything. Save your settings after soundcheck in case you have a catastophic failure.
• Even if you don't touch anything, the sound in a room changes throughout the night. Start adding bodies and crowd noise, and your perfect soundcheck mix is useless.
• Mic bleed is a common problem. The fewer open mics you have on stage, the better. Use the gates on your XR18 (hard to do on the fly while you are playing). Consider using mics with on/off switch for occasional backing vocals. Point guitar cabs away from vocal mics.
• Excessive compression and vocal FX can risk feedback. Use them sparingly. In tough rooms, I often just turn off the FX.

We have a soundman on 50% of our gigs (we do a mix of bar-type gigs and outdoor events). Our guy is a full time pro engineer. My mixer is dialed in and settings are saved between shows. That being said, if nobody is riding the faders during the show, it never fails that someone complains about something being too loud or not loud enough. It's annoying and distracting as hell. That's what I say get a soundman. You're a bass player, right? Make your main thing the main thing.

Just a thought. Do you have a buddy in another band who could run sound for you – and in return, you offer to run sound on his gigs?

We should hire you