• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Tips for soundcheck and running sound while playing bass?

Sometimes, you gotta do what you gotta do. In every band I have been in, we have had to provide our own sound, unless the venue provided it.

Luckily for one band, most gigs were two mains, two monitors, two singers. We had setup for small bars done in about 20-25 minutes, including load-in. Bigger gigs were alot more work as we had to mic/DI, etc

Current band, I got a nightmare story of what we went through last week... drummer who is also our main sound guy had a total meltdown because nothing we working right and he was already not feeling that well... so there's always that kind of thing that can happen.
 
IMHO, This problem has nothing to do with running sound from stage.
in this case it did. I wasn't the run running the board - let's just leave it there ;) I still maintain that by basically taking feedback issues out of the equation via IEM, it makes your life easier. But clearly, you are FAR more experienced and skilled in live sound than I am - I'm barely beyond rank amateur in that department lol.
 
Good info, thanks. I am tempering my expectations. In my area the bar is set pretty low for live music, unfortunately. There are only a couple bands around here that are what I’d call semi-pro caliber in terms of sound and musicianship. And it’s mostly the same half-dozen guys that have been playing together for decades. All the high-paying festivals and city events go to them. We’re in the next tier that plays at the nicer bars and pubs.

All this to say that if I get us a mix that is merely “not bad”, we will have more than enough bookings and I don’t think anyone will want to expend more money or effort to improve it. If I want things done at the level that will make me feel proud, I will have to run my own band, and I absolutely do not want to be a band manager.
the struggle is real my friend!
 
  • Like
Reactions: EricOnTheBass
in this case it did...I still maintain that by basically taking feedback issues out of the equation via IEM, it makes your life easier.
I agree, getting rid of wedges and running IEMs makes a huge difference in regards to feedback problems.

I don't debate that the BL had problems with feedback in the monitors. But the way you run monitors is pretty much the same regardless of where the mixer is placed. On stage, out in the house, or in a truck outside the building, it shouldn't matter. The only difference I can think of is how you communicate. On a smallish stage you might just talk. Out in the house or in a truck, you usually use a talkback mic and headphones

With wedges there is always a limit on available gain before feedback. In order to get the most gain before feedback: 1. use quality gear, 2. consider room acoustics and how the monitors and mics are positioned/aimed, 3. use proper gain staging, 4. avoid heavy compression and time-based effects such reverb and delay in monitor mixes, 5. ring the system for feedback, 6. keep the stage volume low enough that the monitors have sufficient headroom.

FYI, These same factors also relate to feedback problems with the mains.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TomB and richntiff
Yes, we do now, that was one of the first changes we made. Band complaints about the monitors have all but disappeared.
Okay great, this is a huge help. For me, the focus is on keeping stage volume as controlled as possible, and pushing my band to do in ears has really helped with that. The in ears help everyone to keep from turning up constantly, which messes with not only the audience mix, but also everyone's in ear mixes. I know that the behringer has an option for everyone to be able to set their own monitors and adjust from their phones, have them do it themselves to save yourself time and energy. Another thing I very highly recommend is getting shields for your guitarist amp and drummer, whether that is a full plexiglass shield or more portable sound baffles, and mic'ing up the guitar amp and drums, including overheads and hi hat. The aim is to have as much of your audience sound coming from the mains as possible. Another recommendation, which goes along with this, is making sure that your sound system has enough headroom to not peak. When you're running your speakers, subs especially, you should be able to have it loud enough at 50-70 percent on the volume knob and not see any peaking. Make sure you have a good amount of power over what you think you might need. If you have the option, using 15s for your tops is also very helpful. My band uses an EV sound system with 2 15s and 2 18 inch subs, and then we also have two of the the Bose L1 Pro32 with the large subs, which we absolutely love. On the end of the mixing, I recommend adjusting the gain on each channel so that it's not peaking in the mixer, and then adjust levels with the volume fader for each channel. Also, take advantage of the compressors and built in preamps in the mixer app, they can be very helpful. Take a gig where you can set everything up fully and have a good amount of time to setup, and start everything at zero and adjust the gain channel by channel to make sure each channel isn't peaking, then adjust volume at the faders. Assuming you guys are using mostly the same setup and amps and stuff, you shouldn't have to change things too much, aside from when there are drastic changes in the venue (concrete walls/hard surfaces, wood walls, lots of windows, long or wide shape, etc.). I don't know if I missed anything, but feel free to message me or ask more questions. For reference my band has been doing this for 15 years, and most of our gigs that we setup our own stuff is weddings and corporate events. Hope this helps!
 
Our cover band does our own sound, and I have been elected as the soundman. Being the bass player and the sound man simultaneously has been challenging to say the least, but we are making progress. I got myself a Behringer XR18, which I can run onstage with a tablet. I have wireless on my bass, so I can also walk out into the bar and make adjustments there.

Obviously making adjustments during the show has to be a rare occurrence, so I want to make sure our sound check gets as close to the mark as possible. For those of you that have done this before, do you have any wisdom to impart?
When I was doing this, I used a feedback eliminator rack unit for an extra layer of peace of mind.

That’s because my main goal was to not have to leave the stage to fix an issue, thus killing the jamming vibe.

And 9 times out of 10, if there was an issue I had to jump off stage to fix, it was vocal mic feedback, so having an eliminator helped reduce that possibility.

Also a looper pedal can be helpful, so you can walk away from your rig and have hands free to adjust things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EricOnTheBass
When I was doing this, I used a feedback eliminator rack unit for an extra layer of peace of mind.

That’s because my main goal was to not have to leave the stage to fix an issue, thus killing the jamming vibe.

And 9 times out of 10, if there was an issue I had to jump off stage to fix, it was vocal mic feedback, so having an eliminator helped reduce that possibility.

Also a looper pedal can be helpful, so you can walk away from your rig and have hands free to adjust things.
The looper pedal could be a great idea for sound checks. I could play a bass line for the band to jam along with while I dial in the mix.
 
I've got them all set up with the phone app to adjust their mixes, and they are pretty happy with it so far.
Are they using IEM's? Setting band members to be able to adjust their own mix on wedges could be asking for issues......unless they are very controlled in their adjustments.

Edit....I just saw they are using IEMs' !!
 
Last edited:
We're forced into "set it & forget it" scenarios. No sound guy (...other than myself) and Flintstone-esque analog FOH, mains, subs, and a couple of wedge monitors. FOH doesn't feedback, monitors have the potential but I attenuate modestly at 400-600 hz and 4k-6k irrespective of the venue...call it a preemptive strike. Not missed and works wonders. Once you have your system balanced correctly...and that's the operative term...your results should be fairly consistent venue-to-venue without having to re-structure from the ground-up.

If available, I'll send a friend / spouse into the crowd for re-con. The response is usually a shrug and "sounds good to me".

Riis
 
We're forced into "set it & forget it" scenarios. No sound guy (...other than myself) and Flintstone-esque analog FOH, mains, subs, and a couple of wedge monitors. FOH doesn't feedback, monitors have the potential but I attenuate modestly at 400-600 hz and 4k-6k irrespective of the venue...call it a preemptive strike. Not missed and works wonders. Once you have your system balanced correctly...and that's the operative term...your results should be fairly consistent venue-to-venue without having to re-structure from the ground-up.

If available, I'll send a friend / spouse into the crowd for re-con. The response is usually a shrug and "sounds good to me".

Riis
Set-it-and-forget-it is a good name for this scenario. I guess it’ll have to be good enough!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zooberwerx and TomB
The looper pedal could be a great idea for sound checks. I could play a bass line for the band to jam along with while I dial in the mix.
Ok good, this was going to be my suggestion, you play for a bit to establish your stage level, then just repeat it while you adjust monitors and then house. I will agree it's all sub optimal. Also, if you play venues often, save the mix once it's good and reuse it next time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EricOnTheBass
I play bass and "mix from the stage" for my band about half the time, usually in venues we play regularly. It's so much better when we expect the pay to be sufficient to pay for our sound engineer, but it doesn't take away TOO much joy for me to do it when we don't want to fork over the extra money or it's a familiar room.

We have an Behringer X32 rack, and the ability to save scenes does help a lot. No IEMs yet, unfortunately. All 4 members of the band sing lead and backup vocals. ONE BIG TIP I'll give you is to train everyone who sings both lead and backup vocals to move their heads back away from the mic when singing backup. This helps when there's nobody out front to ride vocal faders on a song by song basis, and allows the group of vocalists to mix themselves based on distance from the mic. It takes discipline and they don't always remember to do it when in the moment, but it's something to work on.

Our typical order of operations:

1. I set all the gains, looking for that -18dbFS sweet spot.

2. I then set the wedge mixes so that each person has their own vocal set as the loudest thing.

3. Next each wedge gets with the other three vocals set 5db lower than their own vocal (except for one member who likes them all the exact same volume).

4. Then we add in the guitar rig and keyboard DI to everyone's taste, bringing them up from zero until they are just enough.

5. We don't usually put anything else in the wedges.

6. We do one soundcheck with me out in the room not playing bass to get the sad, bassless mix right.

7. Then I go up on stage, our electric banjo player (he plays it through a pedal board and guitar rig) starts a basic loop, we all start playing to it and singing general nonsense words in key while he goes out front and does the final mix that includes the bass.

I'm sure there are many times the mix isn't great at certain points or songs, and people just don't let us know. But I think for the most part, as someone else said, a good mix is the ear of the beholder, and people won't care too much. I still HIGHLY prefer to hire a dedicated engineer whenever possible.

This reminds me something funny. At a recent gig, we did a split bill with a touring band that we helped get booked at our home venue. It's a place we've been playing multiple times a year for about 9 years. You know, that bar you always hangout with and know pretty much everyone in the room every time you're there. And all your musician friends hang out there when they aren't gigging.

Anyway, I ran sound for the other band who played first, then I set a tablet up on a stand in the corner of the floor by the stage, facing the audience area. A member of the other band agreed to keep an eye on the sound a bit and tweak it if needed during the first few songs. I don't think they had much experience running sound, but as a musician they were capable enough to fake it.

The funny thing was that throughout the show, I saw various friends walking up to the tablet and studying it. Some studied it for a long time, and then started tweaking things. At least 2 or 3 different people did this. I know, this probably scares the crap out of everyone reading this. But crowdsourcing the sound that night, with that crowd, in that room, worked really well actually. It's hilarious to think about. Probably won't make a habit of that, but it was an interesting experiment :roflmao:
 
Any topic-related tips to offer for scenarios using a single "column PA speaker" in low-volume gigs where the entire band/vocals go through the PA? With the wide sound stage, these are supposed to let you get by without needing floor monitors or IEMs (provided you don't point mics at the speaker array). Basically, the band hears what the audience hears. I'm gearing up for a project like this where everyone will plug into a Soundcraft digital mixer using the same inserts for each instrument and mic. That way I can save snapshots to speed setup.

PA-mixer-tall.jpg
 
Basically, the band hears what the audience hears.
I would expect this to be frustrating because most musicians will want at least 6-10dB "more me," rather than the mix the audience hears. This is one reason why Bose advertised each band member using there own array.

It can work as long as the players are prepared and have the maturity and discipline to deal with it. But there may be lot's of complaining and whining. It's not unusual for one or more members to fight for more than their fair share.

I suggest discussing the issue with the band and, if possible doing, a dry run (tech rehearsal) before the gig.
 
I'd like to thank all of you again for the great ideas and suggestions. We played a gig last night, and the sound was probably as good as it's ever been. I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos about EQ and such, and that was helpful as well. I suggest checking out Offshore Audio for anyone who's interested, he goes deep into the technical details, which I like. I'm an engineer by profession, I want to know how things work and why things are done the way they are.

I recorded the whole show into Logic, so this week I'll play it back through the mixer and spend some time tweaking the gating, EQ, compression, and so forth. I expect that many of those settings can stay where they are at from gig to gig.

We had one guy at the gig who kept offering mixing advice to me, even as the rest of the band started playing the next song. Eventually I had to tell him to get lost. I'll post about that in gig stories. We need a security guy in addition to a sound man :laugh:
 
  • Love
Reactions: Wasnex