If you are the cowbell player that doesn't need micing, then possibly it would work. Bass is foundational - No except if you have superpowers and a lot of experience.
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Tips for soundcheck and running sound while playing bass?
- Thread starter EricOnTheBass
- Start date
This will not end well. Just cut out all of the BS and headaches between now and when you would quit and tell them no. Your future self will be so very glad.
Lots of good advice in this thread so far to choose from. I’ve done bass and sound a lot, though I don’t prefer it and I will charge extra if the money’s there. Something in the post above reminded me of a pet peeve: having the sound set up take so much time that very little is left to dial in the bass. I suggest getting your bass gear set up (then moving the bass out of harms way) to the extent possible before you get too far into the sound setup. Otherwise, you (or at least if you’re me) will be down to the wire rushing to dial in the bass in time for the hit. …very unsatisfying.
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Amp Sim pedals and in ear monitors are your friend here. If you can convince the guitarist (and yourself) to use amp sim pedals instead of amps and cabs onstage, it makes your job as sound guy a lot easier. If anyone in the band can be persuaded to use in ear monitors and adjust their own monitor mix with a tablet, even better. (Do not let anyone use in ear monitors and expect you to set their mix for them, this is awful for everyone.)
My old cover band started to get so many compliments on our sound after we switched from amps and wedges to POD/HELIX pedals and IEMs.
Lastly, it's possible to set your own monitor mixes saved in the XR18, bring all your own equipment and set it up, then hand a sound person a tablet and ask them to mix the mains. Experienced sound techs may be willing to work for cheap if all they have to do is run front of house settings with no setup or teardown needed.
My old cover band started to get so many compliments on our sound after we switched from amps and wedges to POD/HELIX pedals and IEMs.
Lastly, it's possible to set your own monitor mixes saved in the XR18, bring all your own equipment and set it up, then hand a sound person a tablet and ask them to mix the mains. Experienced sound techs may be willing to work for cheap if all they have to do is run front of house settings with no setup or teardown needed.
We always set up our instruments before the PA, and everybody helps. Nobody gets paid until the stage is clear and all the gear is loaded up to go home.
I used to be in a band where the singer showed up 5 minutes before we started, that got old really fast.
It’s great to have a soundman, but every gig doesn’t pay enough or isn’t complicated enough to warrant it. We play a lot of small clubs and a 5th member would not make financial sense. When we play bigger clubs we do have a soundman.
I run sound from stage. The bass player goes out into the audience for the sound check and then periodically through the night. We also have musician friends who will let us know if things go awry. My advice is to not make too much of this. You do the best job you can, but if things get a little off, 99.9% of the audience won’t be able to tell.
I will say that I play with pro musicians so we don’t have volume creep.
@Wasnex in your experience as a sound engineer, have you ever mixed with a room mic and headphones out at the mixing position?
I’ve thought about putting a a mic out in the room (in a spot that won’t be disturbed), pointing at the stage. With some digital mixers, it’s pretty easy to switch between your own personal aux mix and a secondary aux mix (the room mic). I wouldn’t want to play bass for long with only that room mic in my ears, but it may be beneficial to be able to listen in occasionally…just to have a sense of what things sound like out in the room. It might give a sense if something is really off. I may just have to try it sometime.
I’ve thought about putting a a mic out in the room (in a spot that won’t be disturbed), pointing at the stage. With some digital mixers, it’s pretty easy to switch between your own personal aux mix and a secondary aux mix (the room mic). I wouldn’t want to play bass for long with only that room mic in my ears, but it may be beneficial to be able to listen in occasionally…just to have a sense of what things sound like out in the room. It might give a sense if something is really off. I may just have to try it sometime.
I can't imagine any reason I would reference a room mic if I was at the mix position.
Also, I don't think it would work well while playing bass on stage. Probably the biggest problem is propagation delay. The sound from the mic is going to be delayed. Another problem is bleed. In my experience, the headphones would need to be super loud to give you an accurate representation of what the mic hears.
I have mixed in remote locations like behind a large stage or in another room; however not while playing so the delay was less of problem. With digital boards I sometimes applied delay so the electronic signals were in time with any acoustic bleed. This helps clear up the sound. I have also worn ER20 ear plugs under the headphones so I could crank the volume enough to get a more accurate representation of the mix.
When I mixed remotely I did sound check out front. During the show, I occasionally stepped out front to make sure what I was hearing in the headphones was still representative of the main mix.
We have a gig on Saturday, and I'm planning to record it so that I can mess with it at home. And allow everyone to hear what we sound like, which is always a humbling and educational experience.
Ignore all the negativity. I've been doing this for almost 20 years. It's not a big deal and you'll get pretty good at it fast. It's just another skill to learn and practice like anything else. IEM's are helpful, but you'll need a way to hear the PA, so having a quick way to switch over to the Main L/R feed is critical. Your IEM app should have a way to set a preset for hat.
With the digital board you can save everything, so there shouldn't need to be many changes once you've dialed things in after the first 5-10 gigs unless you have musicians who change up their gear a lot.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you shouldn't drop your bass part to fix something in the mix unless its horrible feedback. I still use physical faders so I can play and tweak the mix at the same time, but on a tablet I would just make changes in-between songs or during long breakdowns.
With the digital board you can save everything, so there shouldn't need to be many changes once you've dialed things in after the first 5-10 gigs unless you have musicians who change up their gear a lot.
The main thing to keep in mind is that you shouldn't drop your bass part to fix something in the mix unless its horrible feedback. I still use physical faders so I can play and tweak the mix at the same time, but on a tablet I would just make changes in-between songs or during long breakdowns.
Did it for ten years and still do it now.
Always compliments, and I can hand the pad to a friend with good ears to polish it as needed.
Ugh. I don't have any words of wisdom but I can empathise for sure.
I had to do this as a fill-in while for a month while the guy who did sound for us was unavailable. We had two female lead vocalists at the time and they turned that month into the 8th circle of hell.
After that I just said no, and damn the consequences. I'd rather lose a gig than go through it again.
Hey! I do exactly this in my cover band, usually splitting the responsibility with my drummer. Does your band use in ear monitors?
Yes, we do now, that was one of the first changes we made. Band complaints about the monitors have all but disappeared.
A LONG time ago, I played bass, ran sound, lights sang, and played some keyboards from stage. IEMs didn't exist at the time. It took a lot of discipline from the rest of the band to succeed. They didn't have it..
I viewed this as my own person H E double hockey sticks. I learned a lot, but wouldn't wish the situation on my worst enemy.
Best of luck.
I viewed this as my own person H E double hockey sticks. I learned a lot, but wouldn't wish the situation on my worst enemy.
Best of luck.
Yes, it can be done. I used to run sound for my band from stage. So, playing bass, singer, and running sound.
Is it FUN? No. Not remotely. Is it impossible? No. My biggest issue is that you simply are never going to be able to get the mix to sound as good as a dedicated, skilled FOH engineer will. Even if you know all the tricks - high passing, aux fed subs, using RTA, etc - you are not able to make adjustments on the fly, or really dedicate your ears to fine tuning things like a dedicated FOH can do.
One thing - I will NEVER mix from stage if wedge monitors are being used. That's part of what drove us to IEM. Before I took over running sound on my digital board, our BL would mix from stage with an analog board, and we had wedges. Feedback was a constant issue, and controlling/managing feedback was a huge problem. If you want your band to be viewed as strictly amateur hour, the fastest way to do that is to introduce some feedback and then struggle to control it. People REALLY don't like that. So, I bought a digital mixer, learned how to use it, and insisted we switch to IEM along with it. Luckily all were onboard, as we are dedicated to improvement. Our sound immediately got about 500% better. But then we hooked up with our sound engineer - and our sound got 1000% better again.
My new mantra is - running sound yourself might save you money on each individual gig, but it costs you far more in potential for more, better, higher paying gigs down the road. A dedicated FOH engineer is a very worthwhile investment.
Is it FUN? No. Not remotely. Is it impossible? No. My biggest issue is that you simply are never going to be able to get the mix to sound as good as a dedicated, skilled FOH engineer will. Even if you know all the tricks - high passing, aux fed subs, using RTA, etc - you are not able to make adjustments on the fly, or really dedicate your ears to fine tuning things like a dedicated FOH can do.
One thing - I will NEVER mix from stage if wedge monitors are being used. That's part of what drove us to IEM. Before I took over running sound on my digital board, our BL would mix from stage with an analog board, and we had wedges. Feedback was a constant issue, and controlling/managing feedback was a huge problem. If you want your band to be viewed as strictly amateur hour, the fastest way to do that is to introduce some feedback and then struggle to control it. People REALLY don't like that. So, I bought a digital mixer, learned how to use it, and insisted we switch to IEM along with it. Luckily all were onboard, as we are dedicated to improvement. Our sound immediately got about 500% better. But then we hooked up with our sound engineer - and our sound got 1000% better again.
My new mantra is - running sound yourself might save you money on each individual gig, but it costs you far more in potential for more, better, higher paying gigs down the road. A dedicated FOH engineer is a very worthwhile investment.
Good info, thanks. I am tempering my expectations. In my area the bar is set pretty low for live music, unfortunately. There are only a couple bands around here that are what I’d call semi-pro caliber in terms of sound and musicianship. And it’s mostly the same half-dozen guys that have been playing together for decades. All the high-paying festivals and city events go to them. We’re in the next tier that plays at the nicer bars and pubs.
All this to say that if I get us a mix that is merely “not bad”, we will have more than enough bookings and I don’t think anyone will want to expend more money or effort to improve it. If I want things done at the level that will make me feel proud, I will have to run my own band, and I absolutely do not want to be a band manager.
