As a guy who builds completely without power tools, I certainly appreciate this point of view, but also have to say that I think there's a lot more to CNC building than is commonly supposed. I have huge admiration for people who build guitars that way, and they can often make some astonishingly impressive things. Of course, if CNC is just used as a shortcut, then it's kind of dull, but there are some incredibly innovative things being done, from beautiful and precise inlay work to complex internal chambering or neck joints.
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Tips you've learnt; thing's you wish someone had told you BEFORE you started
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As a guy who builds completely without power tools, I certainly appreciate this point of view, but also have to say that I think there's a lot more to CNC building than is commonly supposed. I have huge admiration for people who build guitars that way, and they can often make some astonishingly impressive things. Of course, if CNC is just used as a shortcut, then it's kind of dull, but there are some incredibly innovative things being done, from beautiful and precise inlay work to complex internal chambering or neck joints.
Hopkins
Commercial User
I was just speaking for myself, I love making saw dust and would not like to surrender that experience to a computer guided router. Plus, I want to be off the grid when the machines rise up and take over the world
I'm usually very short on shop time these days due to family obligations, which is why I plan and model while the family is sleeping to make the most of my time. I plan as much as I can for the cnc so that I can be assured I come out with a consistent high quality part each time.
Recently, I've been inlaying my signature in my more custom builds by pocketing with the cnc and filling it with black epoxy instead of a water slide method. Looks much nicer. So one example of doing something that isn't really possible without the cnc.
I look for all opportunities to do something special with that precise tool.
On topic, a good tip for someone starting out is plan your time, and keep a log of how long each operation takes so you can get a better idea of how long it really takes, which is good for providing build time estimates to customers.
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Hopkins
Commercial User
All that being said, I would gladly surrender any inlay work to a CNC, as I find it tedious and frustrating.
1 routers need a bearing to use with templates.
1. Don't sand in the bedroom.
1. Measures 3 times cut once, twice is for carpenters.
1. Tone wood is basic ally ******** if you use active electronic s (no flame me, 10% I'll give you)
1. Don't wait for more tools or better wood
1. Make fI'll size mdf templates
1. Don't cheap out on hardware
1. Don't make your shape too strange
1. Use safety glasses
1 do not cut off your thumb
1 make n use a feather board
1. 2 make and use jigs
1 read lots lots lots and ask ask ask
love it to its core or don't bother trying
1. Don't sand in the bedroom.
1. Measures 3 times cut once, twice is for carpenters.
1. Tone wood is basic ally ******** if you use active electronic s (no flame me, 10% I'll give you)
1. Don't wait for more tools or better wood
1. Make fI'll size mdf templates
1. Don't cheap out on hardware
1. Don't make your shape too strange
1. Use safety glasses
1 do not cut off your thumb
1 make n use a feather board
1. 2 make and use jigs
1 read lots lots lots and ask ask ask
love it to its core or don't bother trying
1 don't rush at end of day, most mistakes big ones happen then
1 consider buying a neck or at least a cut fretboard for first buill
1 sand more
1 routers are awesome
1 wenge splinters too much
1 use a dust mask
1 clamps clamps clamp claps
1
1 consider buying a neck or at least a cut fretboard for first buill
1 sand more
1 routers are awesome
1 wenge splinters too much
1 use a dust mask
1 clamps clamps clamp claps
1
Hopkins
Commercial User
I'm probably rehashing most of what's already been said here but many of these of these are personal, hard-learned lessons:
1.) Unless you already have access to a shop full of tools, your first*(edit) build will most likely cost you well beyond what it would to just buy an instrument. If you are just doing it to save a buck, you probably won't. Do it because you like woodworking and/or you want something unique.
2.) There are many ways and tools one can use to achieve a desired outcome. Educate yourself in the use of power AND hand tools and pick the one that makes you feel most comfortable. Power tools do damage a lot faster.
3.) Consider experimenting with cheaper woods and use templates and jigs.
4.) Make a full size drawing. And incorporate all your parts into the design - down to the electronics cavity. Stick to the plan - if you change something - change it on your drawings also. AND: make sure your routes (pickups/electronics) on opposite sides of your instrument don't conflict.
5.) Spend some time planning your glue-ups and dry fit everything before you start putting glue on it. Related: you can NEVER own too many clamps.
6.) The most important thing in an electric guitar is a stable, playable neck. Consider those constraints first and don't get hung up on 'tonewoods' for electrics. I've seen good sounding guitars wrapped in duct tape, have plexiglass bodies or fiberglass necks. In the end - the only thing all of those instruments had in common were playable necks and good electronics.
7.) If you are designing a bass, put some thought into where the upper horn/strap button goes. Thick necks and small bodies can create neck dive - if you don't plan ahead, by the time you realize you have neck dive - it will probably be too late.
8.) Eccentric body styles (especially by the 'bridge' strap button) don't sit well in most guitar stands.
9.) Accept that you will make a mistake. Probably a couple. See also: The Matrix - "everyone falls on their first jump." Then again, maybe you are "The One."
1.) Unless you already have access to a shop full of tools, your first*(edit) build will most likely cost you well beyond what it would to just buy an instrument. If you are just doing it to save a buck, you probably won't. Do it because you like woodworking and/or you want something unique.
2.) There are many ways and tools one can use to achieve a desired outcome. Educate yourself in the use of power AND hand tools and pick the one that makes you feel most comfortable. Power tools do damage a lot faster.
3.) Consider experimenting with cheaper woods and use templates and jigs.
4.) Make a full size drawing. And incorporate all your parts into the design - down to the electronics cavity. Stick to the plan - if you change something - change it on your drawings also. AND: make sure your routes (pickups/electronics) on opposite sides of your instrument don't conflict.
5.) Spend some time planning your glue-ups and dry fit everything before you start putting glue on it. Related: you can NEVER own too many clamps.
6.) The most important thing in an electric guitar is a stable, playable neck. Consider those constraints first and don't get hung up on 'tonewoods' for electrics. I've seen good sounding guitars wrapped in duct tape, have plexiglass bodies or fiberglass necks. In the end - the only thing all of those instruments had in common were playable necks and good electronics.
7.) If you are designing a bass, put some thought into where the upper horn/strap button goes. Thick necks and small bodies can create neck dive - if you don't plan ahead, by the time you realize you have neck dive - it will probably be too late.
8.) Eccentric body styles (especially by the 'bridge' strap button) don't sit well in most guitar stands.
9.) Accept that you will make a mistake. Probably a couple. See also: The Matrix - "everyone falls on their first jump." Then again, maybe you are "The One."
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See I'd argue this one. If you pick your sources, budget hardware can be really good. I've yet to build anything with $$$ hardware. That said, crap hardware is really crap.
I disagree...
I'd got to the stage where the next step up in an instrument was going to be ABOVE $6k and custom. Thus far, building has cost a lot less than that. Even if I combined everything I've spent on ALL the 10 basses I've built so far, I'd be surprised if it exceeded this. Added to that, for my 40th, I asked all my friends to chip in and that bought $3k worth of machines. Building itself is a good way to avoid the prohibitively expensive cost of things like Foderas/Smith/Roscoe/Fbass. Sure, I haven't ended up with a Fodera, but I have ended up with some really great instruments. All it took was time and planning for the most part. My last 6 string cost less than $200 to build. My current fretless will be similar. The strings are the most expensive bit... And if I don't like it, I can sell it at cost price and build another one.
Like I tell my kids, it's more fun, cheaper and yummier to make pizza at home.
- May 1, 2014
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I have used some cheaper Chinese sources for certain bass hardware (e.g. bridges, tuners, etc.) and had acceptable results, but the manufacturing quality can be hit or miss. I had a set of 6 guitar tuners where 5 were perfectly fine, but one had issues. The return process is LOOOOONG and painful. I also have a fairly large collection of clamps, files, and rasps from Harbor Freight that are covered with a lifetime warranty, but I avoid their sandpaper as I think it's more trouble than it's worth.
I've told people this many times before. "Wilkinson" is the brand to look for in Chinese stuff. It's designed in the UK and then built to proper standards. Most of the hardware on your sub-$1k stuff (Yamaha/Ibanez/Fender/etc) is made by these guys. Look for this brand... or find Korean made hardware instead. But no, you don't have to pay top $$$ for hipshot et all.
I disagree...
I'd got to the stage where the next step up in an instrument was going to be ABOVE $6k and custom. Thus far, building has cost a lot less than that. Even if I combined everything I've spent on ALL the 10 basses I've built so far, I'd be surprised if it exceeded this. Added to that, for my 40th, I asked all my friends to chip in and that bought $3k worth of machines. Building itself is a good way to avoid the prohibitively expensive cost of things like Foderas/Smith/Roscoe/Fbass. Sure, I haven't ended up with a Fodera, but I have ended up with some really great instruments. All it took was time and planning for the most part. My last 6 string cost less than $200 to build. My current fretless will be similar. The strings are the most expensive bit... And if I don't like it, I can sell it at cost price and build another one.
Like I tell my kids, it's more fun, cheaper and yummier to make pizza at home.
Ok, you got me - I should have proof-read: I am going to edit my comment to say "Your FIRST build" will likely cost more.
And there you have it - a $3K shop is a significant barrier to entry for any first time builder. Factor in your time and the cost of parts and you are looking at a pretty expensive first instrument. On my first build, I attempted something similar to my Warwick Thumb NT - which costed me $1600 used in 2005. My first build cost me well over the $1600; I had to buy tools (not all of them), wood, and parts. I spent lots of time reading and lots of time making the bass. In my own experience, if I counted all my hours and factored opportunity costs, like working a job to pay for a new bass instead of making it; it would have cost me much more than just buying one. But if we were all looking to just buy one - we wouldn't be here.
I did my first build with a $150 bandsaw (yes, it was awful), borrowed sander and a router. Tools would have cost well under $500. The tools I bought with my birthday money have just made it all a little faster. I could easily live without my router table and jointer, but they're nice to have sometimes.
True, my first bass used a Gotoh bridge. It's ok, it does the job, it was cheap, it's not as nice as a Hipshop. The Hipshot stuff is available in just about any string spacing and in any number of strings. Off the shelf isn't so accomodating. If I want to source a pickup from G&L, I have to use their bridge due to their choice in string spacing of the pickup. I can buy off the shelf from cheaper parts, but i'm really limited due to the string spacing requirements. Where as a hipshot bridge can be ordered in pretty much any spacing and any number of strings. So while I agree with you about using good parts which are cheap, sometimes the quality and well respected parts are more versatile and accomodating.
These days I use hipshop exclusively for tuners and bridges. They are just so practical, well designed, well made and very versatile. Expensive, sure....but prolly the best available. For pickups, I've just experimented with Nordstrands, and they are very nice. But I can get something even more bespoke and sounding just as good by going to Arron Armstrong and getting him to make something specific for me. The cost isn't much different and then I can claim truely custom hardware.
I'm sure you're right, but it reminds me of a saying that a petrolhead friend of mine and I have...
Took some pictures tonight of the current neck I'm working on as a follow up example of cnc epoxy inlay.
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Yeah, the wilkinson bridges can be had for like £15 on eBay. Brass saddles as well. As for machine heads, I have always bought off-brand cheapish ones off eBay. I tend to avoid them if the chroming looks a little patchy in the photos. However I have had no issues with any of the different ones I have bought. Both open gear and closed sealed units alike. Even the cheap elephant ear ones are still reversible as well.
