To use the Speakon, or 1/4??

[Davidoc]

Speakons are more secure and are built better and have a much greater contact surface...

But I don't think anyone here can actually tell any difference in terms of volume or sound quality if they A/B ed them.

 

[whacker]

I also pooh-pooh being overly concerned with the idea of "underpowering" speakers. Sure you'd like to be able to supply max rated power to any single or group of cabs (but not on quiet tunes!), but getting to that point is usually a process of acquisition of material, contingent on one's finances. For any given rated amp output, having more cabs (of the common efficient ported variety, and I know they vary) will increase the total acoustic output of the rig (total cab impedance allowing the amp to develop max rated output). For instance, compare an amp rated at 300 WRMS @ 4 ohms, connected to a single 4 ohm 4x10, versus the same amp connected to two 8 ohm 4x10s. At the same measured power output, the latter will be louder, and it doesn't matter what the cabs' rated power is. The thing you have to worry about is trying to go louder by turning the amp up and driving it into clipping, thus threatening your speakers. That's the only "danger." The only skill needed to avoid that is common sense gained through experience. Caveats to Acme cab candidates because of their lack of efficiency, but that doesn't mean they don't sound great!

 

[2pods]

Originally posted by whacker
I also pooh-pooh being overly concerned with the idea of "underpowering" speakers. Sure you'd like to be able to supply max rated power to any single or group of cabs (but not on quiet tunes!), but getting to that point is usually a process of acquisition of material, contingent on one's finances. For any given rated amp output, having more cabs (of the common efficient ported variety, and I know they vary) will increase the total acoustic output of the rig (total cab impedance allowing the amp to develop max rated output). For instance, compare an amp rated at 300 WRMS @ 4 ohms, connected to a single 4 ohm 4x10, versus the same amp connected to two 8 ohm 4x10s. At the same measured power output, the latter will be louder, and it doesn't matter what the cabs' rated power is. The thing you have to worry about is trying to go louder by turning the amp up and driving it into clipping, thus threatening your speakers. That's the only "danger." The only skill needed to avoid that is common sense gained through experience. Caveats to Acme cab candidates because of their lack of efficiency, but that doesn't mean they don't sound great!

Yeah, what he said

 

[Josh Curry]

The whole point I was trying to make is this:

According to the power rating of the amp and the cab, you only need 1 cabinet.

It doesn't need to be over analyzed, the specifications tell the story.

 

[2pods]

And if I use one cabinet how do I get full power from the Amp ?
To the best of my knowledge, Ashdown don't do a 4ohm mini cab.

This rig was chosen for power, spread, and (and it's a big and) portability.
As such it delivers everything I want,and until Ashdown start making 4ohm mini cabs, it's the best solution for me.

It holds it's own on a stage with guitar,keys,drums, and vocals at reasonably large gigs. I also have the option for smaller gigs of using one cab.

I've had lots of amps and cabs (all the usual stuff) and this beats the lot of it FOR ME.

These days I'm limited in how much I can lift.
I stand by my choice.
In theory it could be under powered, but then again, the sound dosn't suffer at all.

 

[Josh Curry]

Dude, with 1 cab you ARE getting the full power. The amp outputs 575w RMS @ 8 ohms, your cab can take up to 600w RMS @ 8 ohm. That setup is PERFECT!!!

By having 2 cabinets your just giving yourself something else to carry that you don't need. Large gigs have nothing to do with it. The amp is not going to put out more power just because you plug a second cabinet into it. The only advantage you are getting is that you have twice as much surface area pushing air, but at half the power, so it's questionable whether or not you are getting more or less volume.

Let me clear something up. I spent a lot of time previously researching my new rig before I bought. I had an SWR system, specifically, an 8x8 and an 18 with a stereo 800 amp. the 8x8 was 8 ohm, the 18 was 4 ohm. The 18 needed half the power to be the same volume (roughly) as the 8x8, why? the ohm rating. I spoke with an engineer at SWR about this at length and got a very detailed lesson on ratings and specs and what they really mean and how it affects things such as amp load and the resulting volume the cabs put out. My opinion I am expressing is based purely on specs and sound engineering theory.

This thread is taking a funny turn, hehe.

 

[xyllion]

The amp is not going to put out more power just because you plug a second cabinet into it. The only advantage you are getting is that you have twice as much surface area pushing air, but at half the power, so it's questionable whether or not you are getting more or less volume.

Actually, I'd almost bet that you get more volume adding the second cab in this situation. It is not a certainty since alot has to do with the response characteristics of the cabs themselves, but with most efficient cabs, you will get a volume increase in this situation by adding the second cab.

 

[metron]

The amp is not going to put out more power just because you plug a second cabinet into it.

True but max output power will increase with a smaller load (i.e. two 8 ohm cabs connected to one amp will result in a 4 ohm load) therefore the setup will be louder. This is how solid state amps work.

I have an 8 ohm speaker I use with a bridged power amp. When I connect a second cab to decrease the load to 4 ohms its has more headroom because the amp can put more power into 4 ohms vs. 8 ohms. Its louder, partly (a small part) because there is more speaker area but mostly because of the decreased load/greater amp output capability.

Just an FYI...

 

[Josh Curry]

One of the reasons I like to use the phrase "underpowered" is that the tonal characteristics of a cabinet don't really come out and be prominent until you give it a decent amount of power and start pushing it. Other than your basic EQ all amps sound the same at and cabs sound the same at a low level, it's not till you really start to drive them that you can tell the difference between an OK cab and a Leet cab. Anyone who's ever played guitar through a Marshall knows exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[ChenNuts44]

Originally posted by BassWhore
The whole point I was trying to make is this:

According to the power rating of the amp and the cab, you only need 1 cabinet.

It doesn't need to be over analyzed, the specifications tell the story.

So do you want to tell all those people out there with SVTs and 8x10s to hack their cabs in half because the specifications imply that they should?

FYI, there's a lot more to the story than specs, though understanding them is always a good thing. Powering a 300 Watt RMS rated cab with 300 Watts is fine. Powering two 300 Watt RMS rated cabs with 300 Watts. Powering four 300 Watt RMS rated cabs with 300 Watts is fine. I think you get the idea. You only run into danger when you start clipping. Until then, "underpower" to your heart's content.

If someone's cab sounds like complete ::insert colorful word of choice here:: to you but they love it, who are you to tell them they're wrong? A bit of a stretch, but the analogy still applies.

Also, without even having heard someone's rig in action, you're going to tell them how to make it sound better?

Just a few things to think about. I gather you're trying to be helpful, but look into it a bit. I think you'll make a few interesting discoveries. A cab's impedance rating doesn't make any difference in a cab's volume. The power delivered into the cab and the efficiency of the drivers is what's most important. You might want to check out how sound pressure levels work...the whole logarithmic scale thing. Also look into the relationship between wattage increase and perceived increase in loudness. It takes a lot more than twice the wattage to make a significant volume difference.

By the way, you mentioned "sound engineering theory." Are you an engineer?

 

[StingrayKid21]

Hey everyone. I just thought I'd hop in here and ask a quick speakon question rather than opening and entirely new thread...

My SVT-4Pro came with a Speakon-1/4" cable for use with the mono-bridged section of the amp... I am planning on getting an 8x10 so I want to run mono-bridged to get full power so should I just use that cable or go out and buy a speakon-speakon connector. I have two speakon cables that I am using right now but I heard they aren't wired properly for the mono-bridge output. Anyone know how to "rewire" the speakon cables for a mono-bridged amp?

Thanks!
Justin

 

[2pods]

Originally posted by BassWhore
Dude, with 1 cab you ARE getting the full power. The amp outputs 575w RMS @ 8 ohms, your cab can take up to 600w RMS @ 8 ohm. That setup is PERFECT!!!

By having 2 cabinets your just giving yourself something else to carry that you don't need. Large gigs have nothing to do with it. The amp is not going to put out more power just because you plug a second cabinet into it. The only advantage you are getting is that you have twice as much surface area pushing air, but at half the power, so it's questionable whether or not you are getting more or less volume.

Let me clear something up. I spent a lot of time previously researching my new rig before I bought. I had an SWR system, specifically, an 8x8 and an 18 with a stereo 800 amp. the 8x8 was 8 ohm, the 18 was 4 ohm. The 18 needed half the power to be the same volume (roughly) as the 8x8, why? the ohm rating. I spoke with an engineer at SWR about this at length and got a very detailed lesson on ratings and specs and what they really mean and how it affects things such as amp load and the resulting volume the cabs put out. My opinion I am expressing is based purely on specs and sound engineering theory.

This thread is taking a funny turn, hehe.

The amp is 575watts @ 4 ohms
I rest my case

And what about my Speakon question ?

 

[Josh Curry]

oh brother....

first of all, I did say more than once that if you like your setup, then stick with it. I am only trying to explain what the specs mean, and why or why not you would use a 2nd cab in that setup.

Actually, I have an SVT-5 Pro and a PR-410 HLF, and the specs say to use 2 4x10's or an 8x10. You shouldn't make a stament like that unless you want to quote an exact amp/cabinet combination. If you use using a SVT-3 Pro, yes, you would probably only use 1 4x10. And then it depends which one. back up your statement with specs and an example.

I never claimed to be an engineer, please read my post more thoroughly.

Again, let me stress, this is only my opinion. If you swear that your rig sounds more killer with 2 cabs instead of 1, even though the specs say different, you can disregard everything I am saying. I am throwing down what is generally considered a 'good rule of thumb' and there are exceptions to every rule.

 

[Josh Curry]

Originally posted by 2pods
The amp is 575watts @ 4 ohms
I rest my case

And what about my Speakon question ?

Actually, you just helped make my point. this means that the amp runs at even less @ 8 ohms. probably somewhere around 300w.

Speakon is the best, hands down. I forget the original question.

 

[Josh Curry]

Originally posted by StingrayKid21
Hey everyone. I just thought I'd hop in here and ask a quick speakon question rather than opening and entirely new thread...

My SVT-4Pro came with a Speakon-1/4" cable for use with the mono-bridged section of the amp... I am planning on getting an 8x10 so I want to run mono-bridged to get full power so should I just use that cable or go out and buy a speakon-speakon connector. I have two speakon cables that I am using right now but I heard they aren't wired properly for the mono-bridge output. Anyone know how to "rewire" the speakon cables for a mono-bridged amp?

Thanks!
Justin

Dude, I have the cable you want. I made it from the original one that came with my SVT-5. Go buy yourself a Speakon connector and cut the 1/4" end off the one you got. If you look at the back of your amp you'll see the pin out config for the bridge connection, then look at the wiring diag on the back of the cabinet, it should be self explanitory. The speakon connector that is already on the cable goes to the amp.

 

[pbd]

Hey justin, when your speakon/banana come from the back of your amp they will be using the pin 1+ and the pin 2+ for bridged mono. Your cabinet side will maintain the 1+/1- configuration. As listed in all the posts above;1/4's work fine though they can kick out and short your amp or occassionaly blow out from the jack when pressure inside the cab builds up. Speakons lock in and have a much larger surface contact area. They also have a new 50amp version for more power.

2 pods, if you have a stereo speakon output on your amp check out our site. we have a 'Y' biamp cable that would work for you.

on the underpowering speaker cab thing....If you underpower a cab you have a chance of causing it to sound distorted. The voice coil on the speakers is setup to handle certain power, when it doesn't get it, it is not efficient. The sound I'm familiar with is distortion, it makes you think your overpowering it when your actually under.
The amount you underpower is dependant on the cab's and the amp and how they will respond to each other.

 

[pbd]

If you wire your own be sure to label the ends otherwise you won't get any sound and you'll waist time changing your cable everytime it's hooked up wrong!

 

[2pods]

Originally posted by pbd
2 pods, if you have a stereo speakon output on your amp check out our site. we have a 'Y' biamp cable that would work for you.

It's a pity I'm in the UK or I'd take you up on it

 

[ChenNuts44]

Originally posted by BassWhore
oh brother....

first of all, I did say more than once that if you like your setup, then stick with it. I am only trying to explain what the specs mean, and why or why not you would use a 2nd cab in that setup.

Good. Trying is the key word. Those specs have very little to do with why or why not a person would want to use a second cab.

Actually, I have an SVT-5 Pro and a PR-410 HLF, and the specs say to use 2 4x10's or an 8x10. You shouldn't make a stament like that unless you want to quote an exact amp/cabinet combination.

What, are you calling me out? I made reference to the SVT. There is only one, thus no reason for confusion. Of course, one would normally correlate this to the matched SVT cabinet. Even if this correlation wasn't made, 8x10s are very efficient beasts and tend to have a minimum of 800 Watts RMS for a power rating. Also, by specs, I assume you mean the power output by the amplifier and the RMS power rating of the cab, since you have yet to address anything else. :rollseyes:

If you use using a SVT-3 Pro, yes, you would probably only use 1 4x10. And then it depends which one. back up your statement with specs and an example.

Done.

I never claimed to be an engineer, please read my post more thoroughly.

Link Removed

Again, let me stress, this is only my opinion.

Then stop stating it as fact.

If you swear that your rig sounds more killer with 2 cabs instead of 1, even though the specs say different, you can disregard everything I am saying.

Or we can disregard what you're saying due to your previous point...something about how it's just an opinion...

I am throwing down what is generally considered a 'good rule of thumb' and there are exceptions to every rule.

It's not a bad rule of thumb, but it's not a good one either. There are so many exceptions to the rule that it's hardly worth noting. As I mentioned, you might want to consider things other than power ratings and impedance when talking about specs (SPL/loudness especially). You're trying to simplify things, but it really doesn't break down like that.

 

[Josh Curry]

Whatever, I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you. Do whatever you like.