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Toms Sound Like Poo - What to Do?

jaywa

jaywa

May 5, 2008
7,702
283
Iowa City, IA
#1
Our drummer has a 4-piece Mapex kit with a 11-inch rack tom and a 14-inch floor tom. We've got the kick sounding good, the snare is adequate but the toms just aren't making it.

Both of them sound really hollow... lots of attack but not much beef. The rack tom sounds more like a timbale and the floor tom sounds like a tympani.

He's a good drummer so I don't think technique is the issue. He's using Remo "black dot" heads and has them tuned to where they sound pretty good acoustically... it's just not translating to FOH through our P.A.

So I'm figuring it's an EQ thing. Can anyone give me some baseline settings that would at least get me in the ballpark for the rack and floor toms? We have a Yamaha digital board so there is plenty of EQ power to play with but I frankly don't know where to start.

Thanks in advance!
 
#2
My gut reaction is to tell you to ditch the crappy black dot heads and to work on tuning, but maybe first look at the microphones you are using, and their proximity to the toms. All too often people put microphones way too close to drum heads and the result is usually lots of ringing (due to sympathetic vibration) and a thin reproduction. Try giving it a couple inches (obviously too much can result in unwanted bleed).
 
#3
What mics are you using?
Placement is crucial. Move the mics around and see if it gets better. Try further away, closer if you can, more towards the middle of the head, away from it, ect.
The mics could be phasing with something else resulting in a "hollow" sound. Try to phase invert one or both mics.
It could be a tuning or instrument thing... a mic will only output what it is given and designed to reproduce.
Are you using gates and or comps? They can really make toms happen.

You can't really ask for "typical" tom settings. They vary from day to day, mic to mic, room to room, player to player and kit to kit. If I were to suggest an EQ approach, I'd add what I was missing, reduce what I needed to and place them where they belong in the mix. Listen to them in the context of the mix before you adjust. That is what tells the tale.
 
#4
It's probably a resonace thang. Damping may help.

I know a few drummers who use the following to assist with control for micing.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...g&matchtype=&gclid=CJLl1fT8kbgCFVNo7AodBxIAjg


The drummer I have been working with for the last 4 years or so prefers these. He says it gives him more control over each drum and he can add or subtract damping as needed
Invalid Link Removed

hope this helps,
smogg
 
#8
Tom are easy to trigger
You'd be surprised how many kits that looked like they're mic'd are half triggered. The triggers are small. And a lot of made for drum mics are crap anyhow.
It can be a triggered recording of the same drum in a studio - and triggered to play through the PA, or pick up a sounds from many famous kits.
 
#10
If the rack tom sounds like a timbale, it's likely that both heads are tuned too high, particularly the bottom one.

Never was a fan of black dot heads, though tuned correctly they should do well. The floor tom might need some tape to tone it down a bit, or as suggested above, gating.
 
#11
Curious... How do the toms sound before micing? I wonder if it's a mic/PA issue, or if the heads are bad or just tuned poorly. If you mic something that sounds bad to start with, it sounds equally bad (or worse) through the PA.

Triggers are cheap. But then you'd need to invest in a good sound module. For two toms, it'd probably be much easier and cheaper to buy a couple of SM-57's. They do quite well on toms.

There are lots of drummers that do not know how to tune their instruments. I hope this is not the situation.
 
#12
dalahorse said:
Curious... How do the toms sound before micing? I wonder if it's a mic/PA issue, or if the heads are bad or just tuned poorly. If you mic something that sounds bad to start with, it sounds equally bad (or worse) through the PA.

Triggers are cheap. But then you'd need to invest in a good sound module. For two toms, it'd probably be much easier and cheaper to buy a couple of SM-57's. They do quite well on toms.

There are lots of drummers that do not know how to tune their instruments. I hope this is not the situation.
Click to expand...

Hence why I suggested the drum dial and a big plus one on 57s for Toms.
 
#13
This last gig he had just put the new heads on and I'm not sure he had as much time as he would have liked to tune them in. I did see him messing around with a drum dial but IME some of the drummers with the best sounding kits tune their drums completely by ear.

Interestingly, we made a board tape of the gig and his toms actually sounded pretty good on that. But live, not so much.
 
#14
I hate new heads. They can be a real pain to keep in tune. This may have been part of the problem.

Strange that they'd sound okay on the recording but not through the PA. Knowing this, set aside a few more minutes for the drummer during the next sound check. Like others said, move the mics around. Point them at the rims and the center of the head and everywhere in between until they sound good through the PA. There are actually quite a few good "how to mic drums" videos on youtube.

Good luck!
 
#18
Try reversing the phase on the tom mics. They may be far enough away from the snare or the overheads to be cancelling themselves out. In smaller stage it may be the vocal mics especially with weak singers. Make sure the floor tom channel doesn't have the high passed engaged. And as mentioned above try moving them around the drum. If they sound great unmic'ed, your issue is in your technique.
 

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