Tone is all in the fingers

[Arjank]

IMO/IME it's definitely the combination of a lot of things.

Of course you can identify it's Stanley Clarke when he would play on a P-Bass (or the ol' Gibson EB-2 he played before the Alembics), you can hear his playing style, but his tone will be totally different.
I think most of us have seen the Jaco instructional video with Jerry Jemmott, when he plays Jerry's bass you can hear it's Jaco because of the playing style but I dislike the tone.

 

[Honch]

I find it funny. Numerous guitarists (tards) and bassists that have somewhat fame has continuosly changed gear, both bass and amps throughout their career and yet you hear its them from the first note. Name me ONE bassist that are relatively influential, famous, or known, that has NOT changed bass (to a signature or else) or amp throughout their careers. And yet when you hear them it's always "Hey...that bass player sure sounds like..." and I bet you wont mix up Geddy Lee for Jaco Pastorius. Or even Chris Squire/Geddy Lee/John Entwhistle who actually used the same type of bass. The Ric. Numerous player resorts to "just" a J or P-bass through and Ampeg 8x10 and yet they sound very different from each other. How come?

Name me one that have kept their gear exactly the same, since when they started out. They're overloaded with endorsement deals, and options. If it would make any sense, then Chris Squire would've started to sound like Geddy Lee as fast he played on one of his signature basses. But didn't. And or vice versa.

BTW, yes, we just did this a week ago or so. Redundant ad naseum arguments, and not leading anywhere. As usual.

 

[SteveCS]

I keep hearing this and I don't believe it. If I hear a single note picked/plucked, I can tell a lot about the tone but almost nothing about the player's technique. I could go along with "musicality is in the fingers" i.e. phrasing, dynamics etc. but that's another topic and is not "tone".

I agree with you that 'all' is a step too far, but you/we should be able to distinguish basic stuff like pick vs fingers vs slap vs tap, sul ponticello vs sul tasto, and so on. But I disagree on dynamics not contributing to 'tone' - IME the two are inextricably linked.

 

[radioface]

I can leave controls on both bass and amp set flat and get different tones out of the bass, so explain that.

 

[Matthijs]

What maybe plays a role in these discussions is that a part of the bass players community prefers a bass that is set up as light as possible and they play with a very light touch. Played that way the bass itself does dictate most of the tone, but there's less room for dynamics. Others (like me) prefer a bit more room for dynamics in the right hand and variation in tension in the left hand. That way we areable to influence tone with our fingers. Different schools of playing, that will lead to different views on what determines tone.

 

[Arjank]

Hmm, I have experienced it the other way around. When my basses would be setup with high action I can't play as dynamically as I would want to. Lower action gives me much more control over the movement of my fingers and therefore the dynamics since I don't need to play with excessive force (which I did when I started out). I can get more different "tones" out of a low action bass then out of a high action one, especially when you don't only use fingerstyle playing.

 

[Gearhead17]

"Tone is all in the fingers". It is a flawed phrase. I think we can all agree that are our hands are an important part of the final tone, but not the only factor.

 

[Matthijs]

How would that work? With a medium action bass you can play with and without force, on a low action bass there's only the without option.

 

[Arjank]

How would that work? With a medium action bass you can play with and without force, on a low action bass there's only the without option.

My basses are setup with pretty low action and I can get a subtle tone that's suitable for a "singer-songwriter tone" (using a different angle of my finger tips so the string swings more parallel to the fingerboard) but also a very snappy aggressive tone when digging in and using a different angle of my finger tips so the string swings more perpendicular to the fingerboard. Remember what Bruce Lee said, it's all about economy of motion.

 

[Matthijs]

For me a heavier set up bass does not take a way those possibilties, but it adds several others. I do have to include that I play exclusively fretless and play DB most of the time, so my take on the instrument might differ a bit.

 

[dincz]

I can leave controls on both bass and amp set flat and get different tones out of the bass, so explain that.

I don't believe there's anything to explain. Of course the player can influence the tone. My beef is with the "all or nothing" view.

When I move the EQ controls on my amp, the tone changes. Explain that (no don't really).

Yes, obviously it's a combination of factors and not "all in the fingers".

 

[Arjank]

For me a heavier set up bass does not take a way those possibilties, but it adds several others.

For me a higher setup takes away the possibility of a nice slap-n-pop sound and snappy thumb playing, I never ever got that from a medium-high action setup.

As for fretless, I have a six-string that's also setup rather low, for me there's no big difference between setting up a fretted or fretless bass.

 

[Matthijs]

So far I can't recall anyone arguing it's actually all in the fingers. As was pointed out before, the phrase of words "it's all in the ..." does not actually constitute an absolute statement.

 

[Matthijs]

For me a higher setup takes away the possibility of a nice slap-n-pop sound and snappy thumb playing, I never ever got that from a medium-high action setup.

On fretless I actually need a somewhat higher setup for that

 

[Arjank]

My beef is with the "all or nothing" view.

Of course, that view doesn't hold water.

 

[dincz]

So far I can't recall anyone arguing it's actually all in the fingers. As was pointed out before, the phrase of words "it's all in the ..." does not actually constitute an absolute statement.

Maybe not in this thread but I've read countless posts suggesting (or at least implying) that paying attention to the gear you use is pointless. That's what provoked this thread.

In similar vein I've seen "watts matter", "watts don't matter", "mixed cabs can work", "mixed cabs never work", "body wood is all-important", "body wood contributes almost nothing", "fretboard wood matters", "fretboard wood doesn't matter" etc, etc.

Balanced and considered viewpoints are rare.

 

[Arjank]

Maybe not in this thread but I've read countless posts suggesting (or at least implying) that paying attention to the gear you use is pointless.

Was that in the amps and cabs forum (which is 99% about "tone")?

 

[dincz]

Was that in the amps and cabs forum (which is 99% about "tone")?

Often, yes. But the same thing crops up all over TB e.g. bass A sounds better than bass B. Bass A has a maple fingerboard so it must be that. Amp A sounds better than amp B. Amp B is class D so it must be that. Or active basses sound bad, anything digital sounds bad and so on.

It's probably just a lack of thought before jumping to conclusions.

 

[beans-on-toast]

27 bones that work in concert with the brain.

 

[Arjank]

Often, yes. But the same thing crops up all over TB e.g. bass A sounds better than bass B. Bass A has a maple fingerboard so it must be that. Amp A sounds better than amp B. Amp B is class D so it must be that.

It's probably just a lack of thought before jumping to conclusions.

If there are people who have the opinion that it's useless to pay attention to gear then these people should not be comparing basses and amps sound/tone wise. Then they only need to pick a bass on it's playability / price and an amp on how loud it goes and the size / weight and cost, it's as simple as that