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"Tone of boutique cables" continued: spectrum analysis graphs

#21
Sorry, I can't help myself from being annoyingly pedantic, but...

Sticking a pickup in series is obviously the proper way to model the high output impedance case, but the impedance is a function of the DC resistance and the coil's inductance. I know that you know this, but see above. :)

Anyway, great work! What did you use to generate the pretty plots? I can only get as fancy as an old analog scope and signal generator in my basement.

I must say I'm shocked to see such a huge range in capacitance, and that the most expensive cable has the worst. :)
 
#22
I made the plots with a program called TrueRTA. I have a couple of other spectrum analysis programs with more advanced features, but TrueRTA is by far the easiest to use. I also just picked up a digital scope with USB, so as soon as I figure out how it all goes together I will be able to post similar plots with scope math (A+B, A-B, etc.).

I actually just this week finally sold my old Tektronix 465B and FG-501. :)
 
#24
Hmmm... I'm not sure there's any realistic way I could make a "no cable" that would satisfy the terms of the idea adequately.

I did however just recently compare a distorted sine wave through a 5" cable against the exact same wave through several 20' cables:

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I haven't finished analyzing these results, and I'm not 100% satisfied with my methodology yet, so I won't be able to explain or elaborate further at this time. Soon though, probably within a week.
 
#25
bongomania said:
Hmmm... I'm not sure there's any realistic way I could make a "no cable" that would satisfy the terms of the idea adequately.

I did however just recently compare a distorted sine wave through a 5" cable against the exact same wave through several 20' cables:
Click to expand...

For all practical purposes, I'd say a 5" cable is "no cable" when you're comparing it to a 20' cable. At that point, I'm assuming the parasitics from the cable itself are pretty minimal. I eagerly await your full results. :cool:
 
#30
i was just about to be sarcastic about this thread, but no i love this sort of stuff.. fine tuning of a bass tone is great.. and its very interesting.. but how much would you pay for a cable... ? i have a Fender 5 ft, and a bespoke 10 ft that was the best you can buy for very little money.. i see some 10ft's for £100+? is this best for recording..?
 
#31
Found this thread searching "Elixir". Holy crap what a pos for bass. I've had one for a year or two, thought it sounded bad, but now I know for sure. Took it to a practice last night and used it on my friend's killer amp. I couldn't find my tone at all. I had previously been using Planet Waves, but it's on the fritz. I scratched my head for a while, trying different EQ settings but no luck. Then I swapped cables to a generic el-cheapo cable and BAM, full bass tones were restored. The Eilxir is like the tone sucker for bass. IMHO of course. All the other guys noticed it right away as well. It looks well built but sounds like crap.
 
#32
:) What actually happened there was that the "el cheapo generic" cable had higher capacitance, so it created more of a low-pass filter with a resonant peak in the mids, and this sounded really good; while the Elixir had such low capacitance that much less of an RC filter effect was created, and the signal was closer to "flat", i.e. the true sound of your bass. This allows you to use the EQ on your amp to do whatever tone-shaping you might like, rather than using the cable as EQ.

So it's clear, I'm not at all saying the low-capacitance way is inherently better--in fact most people prefer the tone of a higher capacitance cable, saying it is "warmer", "rounder", "smoother", etc.. But the problem is they just didn't realize they could get the exact same "warmth" etc. by just adjusting the EQ on their amp.
 
#33
Cool, I guess. It was just so different it was mind blowing, and I wasn't the only one who noticed. Been researching cables now for hours..... geesh. I'm a skilled solderererrrr, so no problem rolling my own, but still unsure where to go cable wise. I'm going to return the PW for warranty inspection, and it's now obvious I need extra cables for backup. I prefer the PW and cheapo sound to the pricey Elixir.

Wow, lot's of info out there. FTR both of my basses are passive (I like it that way).

PS, I did try boosting the bass on my Sansamp, but it was still the sound of suck that I heard w/Elixir. ;)

PPS, the lead guitar player said "It didn't even sound like the same bass", for all you "a cable is a cable guys", which I guess I used to be.
 
#34
bongomania said:
:) What actually happened there was that the "el cheapo generic" cable had higher capacitance, so it created more of a low-pass filter with a resonant peak in the mids, and this sounded really good; while the Elixir had such low capacitance that much less of an RC filter effect was created, and the signal was closer to "flat", i.e. the true sound of your bass. This allows you to use the EQ on your amp to do whatever tone-shaping you might like, rather than using the cable as EQ.

So it's clear, I'm not at all saying the low-capacitance way is inherently better--in fact most people prefer the tone of a higher capacitance cable, saying it is "warmer", "rounder", "smoother", etc.. But the problem is they just didn't realize they could get the exact same "warmth" etc. by just adjusting the EQ on their amp.
Click to expand...

Nice to see these tests still going on! I forgot, did you ever subject the George L's to your procedure? Those seem to have at least a somewhat different tone with a passive pickup than many other cables.. more open up top, to the point where some call them 'thin sounding'.
 
#35
That's an even more extreme case of what I was describing there about the Elixirs! George L's have even lower capacitance, so with a passive instrument they pass more high frequencies and have less of a hump in the mids, making them seem thin, shrill, brittle, etc. But again, all that means is you can do the EQ shaping at the amp instead of with the cable. Or, alternately, you can choose higher-capacitance cables, and have your signal pre-EQ'ed before it hits the amp--that's a completely legitimate personal preference.
 
#37
Subscribed.

Out of curiosity, are you going to include non-copper cables in any of this testing, like Zaolla silverlines, etc, or strictly cables marketed for instruments? A Zaolla was the first cable I'd ever used where I noticed an immediate, VERY audible difference in tone, as opposed to whether the cable simply worked or not.
 
#38
I can't tell the difference between cables on my Tascam basstrainer. I think I hear a suble difference on my 15w practice amp between the PW and Elixir, but either sounds fine. Where it seemed obvious was on my buddies Peavey Firebass 700 on a matching 8x10 (awesome) turned up enough to be fun. I've used several generic looking cables and never had any issues. I ordered an 18' FatsoFlex (great price on Amazon and it looks tough (I seem to step on my own cable) and a Nuetrik right angle jack to repair my PW. I'll observe and report back if we can really hear any difference between cables at this weeks practice.

For what it's worth, the Elixir cable I have is 10', the Planet Waves is 20'.
 
#39
WalterBush said:
Out of curiosity, are you going to include non-copper cables in any of this testing, like Zaolla silverlines, etc, or strictly cables marketed for instruments? A Zaolla was the first cable I'd ever used where I noticed an immediate, VERY audible difference in tone, as opposed to whether the cable simply worked or not.
Click to expand...

I definitely plan to include any type of cable that may conceivably be used in an instrument application.

My tests have taken a temporary standstill just because I'm finally employed again after an extended period between jobs, and I'm working long hours all week (a situation I am very grateful for!). As soon as I get back in a decent rhythm of work schedule versus family schedule versus "me time", I will pick back up on the testing.
 

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