tone ring showman cab (single 15), or dual showman cab (double 15)?

[bon viesta]

oh god, he’s back again, right!?! well listen, in my crusade against the amp and cabs section of this forum, i should mention i haven’t bought a single piece of… anything. this is basically a giant research project to make sure i’m informed and know how to use my money (and future money) to get an amp set up i’ll love and be happy i got. something to look nice, something to play well, something to be proud i chose. i’ve been thinking more about the fender bassman thing, and i finally found some cabinet makers on the web that make showman style larger cabinets. i’m a sucker for bigger bass amps, especially cabinets. i’m young, and not gigging, so maybe i haven’t been scared off by the prospect of getting a hernia and riding in the backseat with 100 pounds on my lap, but the bigger the cabinet is, the more awesome it looks. and i’m guessing it sounds a little different, too. all my hero’s had a backline of giant awesomeness!! but anyways, there’s guys who make 2x15 dual showman cabinets, 24x36x11.5, and there’s guys who make tone ring showman cabinets with the same dimensions. i’ve heard good things about tone rings, but which would get the most bang out of any wattage buck i put into it. a single ported 15, or double 15s in a small box (which still technically has enough volume i believe)? i know, i know, i won’t get ultra low svt 8x10 clean headroom until i get tinnitus out of any set up i plug into a 50 watt bassman style head, but i’m just asking questions it’s something you gotta do when you don’t know anything. and no i haven’t abandoned the ampeg idea, i’m heading back to the fender for now to get a grip on my options with maybe different cabinets. also: the speakers i’ll use will be legend speakers, 15 inchers. below are the volume requirements for those. the cabinet for the showman’s will have ~4.40 cubic feet total. anyways thanks for having patience with my forum antics

 

[AlexanderB]

Please use paragraphs and capital letters, if you expect to get serious replies.
Not doing so is a bit insulting, as reading your walls of text takes some effort.

 

[bon viesta]

I don’t have an answer but can make it easier for those who might

“oh god, he’s back again, right!?!

well listen, in my crusade against the amp and cabs section of this forum, i should mention i haven’t bought a single piece of… anything. this is basically a giant research project to make sure i’m informed and know how to use my money (and future money) to get an amp set up i’ll love and be happy i got. something to look nice, something to play well, something to be proud i chose.

i’ve been thinking more about the fender bassman thing, and i finally found some cabinet makers on the web that make showman style larger cabinets.

i’m a sucker for bigger bass amps, especially cabinets. i’m young, and not gigging, so maybe i haven’t been scared off by the prospect of getting a hernia and riding in the backseat with 100 pounds on my lap, but the bigger the cabinet is, the more awesome it looks. and i’m guessing it sounds a little different, too.

all my hero’s had a backline of giant awesomeness!! but anyways, there’s guys who make 2x15 dual showman cabinets, 24x36x11.5, and there’s guys who make tone ring showman cabinets with the same dimensions. i’ve heard good things about tone rings, but which would get the most bang out of any wattage buck i put into it. a single ported 15, or double 15s in a small box (which still technically has enough volume i believe)?

i know, i know, i won’t get ultra low svt 8x10 clean headroom until i get tinnitus out of any set up i plug into a 50 watt bassman style head, but i’m just asking questions

it’s something you gotta do when you don’t know anything. and no i haven’t abandoned the ampeg idea, i’m heading back to the fender for now to get a grip on my options with maybe different cabinets.

also: the speakers i’ll use will be legend speakers, 15 inchers. below are the volume requirements for those. the cabinet for the showman’s will have ~4.40 cubic feet total.

anyways thanks for having patience with my forum antics “

All the best to you!

i’ve been trying to use (return) but it doesn’t work!! but i’ll try to edit this into that wall of text. thanks!

 

[bon viesta]

i’ll have to repost this again later in the day, because i can’t edit it anymore. oh well

 

[bon viesta]

if any mods see this, go ahead and delete this if you could. thanks!

 

[Roxbororob]

Please use paragraphs and capital letters, if you expect to get serious replies.
Not doing so is a bit insulting, as reading your walls of text takes some effort.

I agree.

As well, the replies and advice you have already been given took some thought and effort. Asking for similar advice over and over will get old.

 

[Michedelic]

oh god, he’s back again, right!?! well listen, in my crusade against the amp and cabs section of this forum, i should mention i haven’t bought a single piece of… anything. this is basically a giant research project to make sure i’m informed and know how to use my money (and future money) to get an amp set up i’ll love and be happy i got. something to look nice, something to play well, something to be proud i chose. i’ve been thinking more about the fender bassman thing, and i finally found some cabinet makers on the web that make showman style larger cabinets. i’m a sucker for bigger bass amps, especially cabinets. i’m young, and not gigging, so maybe i haven’t been scared off by the prospect of getting a hernia and riding in the backseat with 100 pounds on my lap, but the bigger the cabinet is, the more awesome it looks. and i’m guessing it sounds a little different, too. all my hero’s had a backline of giant awesomeness!! but anyways, there’s guys who make 2x15 dual showman cabinets, 24x36x11.5, and there’s guys who make tone ring showman cabinets with the same dimensions. i’ve heard good things about tone rings, but which would get the most bang out of any wattage buck i put into it. a single ported 15, or double 15s in a small box (which still technically has enough volume i believe)? i know, i know, i won’t get ultra low svt 8x10 clean headroom until i get tinnitus out of any set up i plug into a 50 watt bassman style head, but i’m just asking questions it’s something you gotta do when you don’t know anything. and no i haven’t abandoned the ampeg idea, i’m heading back to the fender for now to get a grip on my options with maybe different cabinets. also: the speakers i’ll use will be legend speakers, 15 inchers. below are the volume requirements for those. the cabinet for the showman’s will have ~4.40 cubic feet total. anyways thanks for having patience with my forum antics

Uhh, maybe you should switch to decaf? Just curious, why are you so obsessed with the Fender example? The cosmetics? Historical vibe? The onward march of bass amp technology got underway by a bunch of upstart companies, Ampeg, Sunn, and Acoustic in particular, trying to build a better mousetrap in response to Fender’s inadequacies in that department. To which they succeeded, in the context of the times.
If you want to go the dual 15 route, you’d be better off finding or emulating an old Sunn 200s cab(which has a unique porting system), 2000s if you want to go big, or later 215B (back to a more manageable size)which has a straightforward baffle/port construction, and was something of a forerunner of the Mesa Diesel cabs(which were based on Thiele design). But even those have their limitations.

 

[bon viesta]

sorry! i need to apologize for my frequent and redundant questions. i won’t be doing them anymore, i think. thanks for giving me your thoughts everyone. i’ll need to look over already stated responses instead of just asking more. you’ve already given me your opinions several times. consider this thread defunct you can respond but don’t feel any reason to

 

[chadds]

May I say?
Buy these cabs used. Actual Marshall, Fender, Sunn, Ampeg. They will have resale value. A custom cab? Not so much.
A Sunn 200s is a holy grail of vintage, full range, punch, volume and size. 2000s if you have to. Try them both.
Next to any Fender of the era the Sunns are in another dimension. Sunns actually were/are pants flappers.
When you flip through these it will no longer be theoretical. It won't be our opinions. It will be your ears and experience.

 

[AGCurry]

I agree with what others have written. Neither the Showman nor the Dual Showman cabs are great... but the Showman (tone ring) cabinet is better than the Dual Showman.

 

[abarson]

I don't mean this harshly, but throughout your threads you haven't once mentioned your experience with playing through any equipment. We can toss electronic symbols across the ether forever but it's meaningless until you actually play through any rig and come to some conclusion as to what you like or dislike about it.

I think it would serve you well to go to a music store with a friend who will blindfold you and change equipment for you while you play. That way you're judging sound and not aesthetics. The notes that we paint on the air are sensed by our ears, not our eyes. It might also enlighten you that the sonic image in your mind that you are chasing can be obtained with something different than what you think you want. You need to play through the equipment and not rely on online videos, etc.

 

[nickpc]

As I see yet another thread doing a paper analysis on cabinet capacity and driver size I'm thinking that you've crossed over into "paralysis by analysis" territory. You don't have any idea how you will sound, playing your bass, through any of the equipment you're analyzing to death. You will not pick the perfect amp/cabinet combo on your first try. It's statistically impossible. Find a good place to start and then START!

 

[bon viesta]

I don't mean this harshly, but throughout your threads you haven't once mentioned your experience with playing through any equipment. We can toss electronic symbols across the ether forever but it's meaningless until you actually play through any rig and come to some conclusion as to what you like or dislike about it.

I think it would serve you well to go to a music store with a friend who will blindfold you and change equipment for you while you play. That way you're judging sound and not aesthetics. The notes that we paint on the air are sensed by our ears, not our eyes. It might also enlighten you that the sonic image in your mind that you are chasing can be obtained with something different than what you think you want. You need to play through the equipment and not rely on online videos, etc.

i play a 20 watt tube guitar cabinet head section through a 90s(?) EV 12” monitor cabinet. it’s very small. and it sounds great, personally. especially when the tubes break up and it sounds like i’m mel scratcher grinding out bass. but clean, it sounds very good as well. but could be a little bassier. my previous amp was a pathetic little ampeg 8” combo. it sounded good, but too quiet. it rattled horribly on the note g. i’ve tried out a 15 inch beta speaker cabinet made from mahogany, but it was made for guitar so the cabinet rattled. but when it didn’t rattle, it sounded great. much more bassy than the 12 inch.

 

[Michedelic]

i play a 20 watt tube guitar cabinet head section through a 90s(?) EV 12” monitor cabinet. it’s very small. and it sounds great, personally. especially when the tubes break up and it sounds like i’m mel scratcher grinding out bass. but clean, it sounds very good as well. but could be a little bassier. my previous amp was a pathetic little ampeg 8” combo. it sounded good, but too quiet. it rattled horribly on the note g. i’ve tried out a 15 inch beta speaker cabinet made from mahogany, but it was made for guitar so the cabinet rattled. but when it didn’t rattle, it sounded great. much more bassy than the 12 inch.

Mel Scratcher? Oh man, I love that! That made my day.

 

[beans-on-toast]

The Fender tone ring is simply their take on the Ampeg double baffle approach with porting around the speaker.

 

[abarson]

i play a 20 watt tube guitar cabinet head section through a 90s(?) EV 12” monitor cabinet. it’s very small. and it sounds great, personally. especially when the tubes break up and it sounds like i’m mel scratcher grinding out bass. but clean, it sounds very good as well. but could be a little bassier. my previous amp was a pathetic little ampeg 8” combo. it sounded good, but too quiet. it rattled horribly on the note g. i’ve tried out a 15 inch beta speaker cabinet made from mahogany, but it was made for guitar so the cabinet rattled. but when it didn’t rattle, it sounded great. much more bassy than the 12 inch.

Then you really owe it to yourself to play through equipment specifically designed for the bass guitar and not a hodge-podge of guitar stuff. Really.

 

[bon viesta]

Then you really owe it to yourself to play through equipment specifically designed for the bass guitar and not a hodge-podge of guitar stuff. Really.

the thing doesn’t even have an eq!!! it’s just got a volume and tone

 

[1bassplayinfool]

Just get a Mesa Subway 215... my .02

 

[AGCurry]

... something to look nice, something to play well, something to be proud i chose...
all my hero’s had a backline of giant awesomeness!!

"... something to look nice" is the first criterion you mention. Since most of my heroes are old or dead, many of them did indeed have backlines of giant awesomeness. I just hope you realize that, were they alive and playing today, they would use smaller and lighter rigs, with at least as much awesomeness.

Seriously: I've been playing for 50 years, and I can say with certainty that gear for electrified bass has never been better than it is right now. Yeah, the Fender amps of the 1960s had a great look, but Fender didn't make a single good bass speaker in that decade. I remember.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

"... something to look nice" is the first criterion you mention. Since most of my heroes are old or dead, many of them did indeed have backlines of giant awesomeness. I just hope you realize that, were they alive and playing today, they would use smaller and lighter rigs, with at least as much awesomeness.

Seriously: I've been playing for 50 years, and I can say with certainty that gear for electrified bass has never been better than it is right now. Yeah, the Fender amps of the 1960s had a great look, but Fender didn't make a single good bass speaker in that decade. I remember.

Hear! hear! I second that opinion and had a 1966 Fender Bassman amp that I bought in 1966. I replaced three speakers before I traded it in for a much better Standel piggy-back amp (a 215 by the way) in late 1971.

Now I use a DNS-210 cab by DNA because it will handle all my indoor venues and a DNS-410 for outdoor venues and Music Festivals. I can hurt your ears with either of those if I choose to...