If the kick is the only thing in the mix and you can't turn it down there must be something wrong with your mixer. Try a different channel. Also with such a small system there really is no need to run the kick in an aux or anything else. I was a sound engineer for over 25 years is why I suggested asking a local soundman for some help. Seems like you are missing something and I wouldn't want you to damage your system.
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I can turn down the kick, however when I get it sitting right in the mix it's pushing the mains a bit too much for my liking. And I have no doubt I'm missing something that's why I asked.
Nice setup - I've got similar (ZLX15Ps, rent ETX subs when required, DL1608 mixer).
reread what @s0c9 wrote. Good advice here.
I'll add - experiment with HPF on the kick, maybe around 50 to 100Hz. If THAT doesn't work, maybe it's the room. Some rooms are just not friendly to low frequencies.
I have no idea what I’m talking about really…so this could be wrong, but it’s what we do.
Are you running through the sub, using the sub’s internal x-over to feed the tops? This means you don’t have independent control over the output, if you drop the level on the fader, it drops out of the sub and the top. If you run the sub off an AUX, then you can have plenty thump from the sub, but turn down the snap in the tops. If the tops have an independent HPF you can just filter all the low stuff out to prevent damage. Having to control 2 volumes is a little bit annoying though.
You could probably get the same result with some clever EQ.
Are you running through the sub, using the sub’s internal x-over to feed the tops? This means you don’t have independent control over the output, if you drop the level on the fader, it drops out of the sub and the top. If you run the sub off an AUX, then you can have plenty thump from the sub, but turn down the snap in the tops. If the tops have an independent HPF you can just filter all the low stuff out to prevent damage. Having to control 2 volumes is a little bit annoying though.
You could probably get the same result with some clever EQ.
I run the left from the board to the sub then out from the sub to the main. The EV mains have a crossover builtin using the DSP panel I can select the subs being used. So i assume it's a full range signal coming from the sub to the main and the main is doing the crossover. The repeat for the right side.
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So I have asked this before: Any of you pro tb'ers use these new cardoid subs yet? And if so, do they help in a significant way? ( asks the sub-pro ).
I have the same mixer. I always set up Aux 6 as a feed for the subs. I set Aux 6 to Post fader and set the kick, Toms,and bass faders in aux 6 to unity. I then adjust the master volume of Aux 6 to taste. I also use a HPF on the Aux 6 eq to clean up the mix a little. Also I put a low pass filter on Aux 6 to around 100HZ and a HPF to 100HZ on the main LR if the subs do not have a built in crossover. I always run my Midas M32 the same way. It give you more control having the subs and LR mains separate.
can you change the Xover point / freq .. ?? is there a spot where that point tames the bass drum . ?
can you change the Xover slope . ? or type . ?
i'm not familiar with those speakers ... usually used a DBX processor for Xover/eq ...
compression should help ... a large pillow in the drum always helps .. ?
is there a rumble filter for that channel ... ultra low cut . ?
did you back of the lows .. ? if there is a 4 band eq with sweepable mids , maybe you can find/cut the booming freq .. ?
can you change the Xover slope . ? or type . ?
i'm not familiar with those speakers ... usually used a DBX processor for Xover/eq ...
compression should help ... a large pillow in the drum always helps .. ?
is there a rumble filter for that channel ... ultra low cut . ?
did you back of the lows .. ? if there is a 4 band eq with sweepable mids , maybe you can find/cut the booming freq .. ?
no, that's not how the aux-fed thing is supposed to work.
the tops and subs are supposed to be balanced and crossed over so that things that need the low end (kick, floor tom, bass) are sent 100% into both and sound right, while the rest is taken out of the subs entirely.
aux-fed is not about adding in stuff to the tops, it's about removing stuff from the subs!
so you're sure you set the tops to where the the lows were taken out? that's the point of the external sub, to carry the low end and let you take it out of the tops so they have more headroom too.
next time, once you're sure all the boxes are set with the right crossover settings, try running hi-fi music through the system with all EQ shut off everywhere, then adjust the levels of the tops and subs until it sounds right.
if you're gonna do an aux-fed sub thing, set the aux channel out for the subs to 0dB, set the aux send level to 0dB and leave it there before adjusting the gains on the boxes.
put your low instruments in the sub aux all the way to 0dB, then take the other instruments all the way out of that aux.
at that point you should be able to run every channel EQ however you want and the highs will go where they should and the lows will go where they should.
for the kick, try the classic "rock kick EQ" curve: remove any HPF or LPF, set the lowest EQ band to shelf and boost the low end from like 70 and below, cut it from like 100 to 300, then add a pinch of boost up high, like 2k and up with it set to shelf. you shouldn't need a lot of boost on the high end unless you're in a metal band, but don't be scared to scoop out that flappy, loose low mid. (make a cut, then slide it back and forth with your finger in that 100-300 zone til you find where the flappy, boxy stuff goes away.)
that'll give you a big fat kick that keeps from stressing the low end of the top boxes and still has snap and attack.
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Your PA system should be able to be setup with tops and subs in tandem, (without the Aux to subs method)with a nice balanced sound, EQ'd flat with some of your favourite pre-recorded music playing through it.
Your cross-over should run the tops high-pass and the subs low-pass, with a crossover frequency in the range of 80~120Hz depending on the sub's design.
Then EQ the kick with system set room flat, I tend to boost the tops and mids, and cut the bass on the kick channel, and a 40Hz Highpass.
This gives a better chest punchy kick, rather than a dull feed-backing thud.
A popular misconception, that kick needs to be all bassy.
If your desk has an input 'pad' button, engage that to drop the input level, or turn the gain right down.
Pack the kick drum bottom 1/3rd of the cavity with a pillow.
The kick will mic better if it has a front skin with a mic hole, and tune the kick to suit mic'ing.
Apart from the EQ'ing, I also use heavy noise gating, compressor/limiter for the kick channel.
Your cross-over should run the tops high-pass and the subs low-pass, with a crossover frequency in the range of 80~120Hz depending on the sub's design.
Then EQ the kick with system set room flat, I tend to boost the tops and mids, and cut the bass on the kick channel, and a 40Hz Highpass.
This gives a better chest punchy kick, rather than a dull feed-backing thud.
A popular misconception, that kick needs to be all bassy.
If your desk has an input 'pad' button, engage that to drop the input level, or turn the gain right down.
Pack the kick drum bottom 1/3rd of the cavity with a pillow.
The kick will mic better if it has a front skin with a mic hole, and tune the kick to suit mic'ing.
Apart from the EQ'ing, I also use heavy noise gating, compressor/limiter for the kick channel.
It was touched on earlier but I think the point was missed so I'll elaborate on it...
If you are new to mixing, you probably didn't realize how much mid frequencies and even higher frequencies things like bass drum, floor tom, and bass guitar have. If your cross-over is set up properly, I would expect you to get A LOT of bass drum in yours mains - and you're going to want SOME of that otherwise it will sound muffled. The best way to lower bass drum in the mains is with eq settings. If you have a digital mixer than on the bass drum channel create a 'shelf' drop off for frequencies above 100hz and there you go. I would suggest that you're looking to achieve a reduction in the amount of bass drum in your mains - not a total reduction. You're still going to want some of the beater attack or you'll miss some pretty nice tones. The principle above applies to floor tom and bass guitar as well.
If you are new to mixing, you probably didn't realize how much mid frequencies and even higher frequencies things like bass drum, floor tom, and bass guitar have. If your cross-over is set up properly, I would expect you to get A LOT of bass drum in yours mains - and you're going to want SOME of that otherwise it will sound muffled. The best way to lower bass drum in the mains is with eq settings. If you have a digital mixer than on the bass drum channel create a 'shelf' drop off for frequencies above 100hz and there you go. I would suggest that you're looking to achieve a reduction in the amount of bass drum in your mains - not a total reduction. You're still going to want some of the beater attack or you'll miss some pretty nice tones. The principle above applies to floor tom and bass guitar as well.
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There is only one answer, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned it.
You are going to have to fire the drummer.
You are going to have to fire the drummer.
I run the exact same setup with zlx mains and Elx subs. Try routing the left and right mixer output through the mains (setting the crossover to elx118) and then from the mains to the sub. Always works as it should for me. Also, the zlx mains "limit" way to early imho. I stand behind them and watch them flash limit even at lower volume gigs. I stopped worrying about the limit indicator and just use my ears.
I was wondering about that but all the docs show going through the subs first. I'm going to setup one side this week and see what I can figure out. Thanks!
I will definitely look at this again. I'm pretty sure there is some damping in the kick drum just not sure how much.
From what you describe, you are getting too much mid and high end from the kick. You just want thump. In that case, first, EQ the channel with less highs and mids. Likely that will solve it for you.
Or, run the mains from left and right, run the subs from a subgroup. Say subgroup 1. Send the things you want to hit the subs to 1 and let that be an independent master for your subs. For the Koch drum channel, don't select L-R, just your subgroup, and it won't come out of the mains. That's how I tend to run subs, off an aux channel or a subgroup so I can mix those separately.
Or, run the mains from left and right, run the subs from a subgroup. Say subgroup 1. Send the things you want to hit the subs to 1 and let that be an independent master for your subs. For the Koch drum channel, don't select L-R, just your subgroup, and it won't come out of the mains. That's how I tend to run subs, off an aux channel or a subgroup so I can mix those separately.
