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Totally Hand Built....

sps500

In Memoriam
May 19, 2008
1,831
58
Ok i am starting this thread more as information for guys wanting to know so please add the makers...

Who are the luthiers that totally use only tools and no CNC for their builds... Neck and Body.... I only know 2 so please feel free to add...

1) Fodera
2) MBasses
 
I still build my basses the old-fashioned way, using routers and fixtures to cut the main dimensions and surfaces of the bodies and necks. No CNC here. But I design my basses in AutoCad, and print out patterns to make the routing templates. Does that count? There are a lot of us Luthiers who still do it that old-fashioned way.

It's really hard to define "handmade" these days. Many small high-end builders now use CNC in place of the traditional pin routers to rough out the wood parts. But they still put a huge amount of skilled, detail labor into trimming and fitting the parts together. CNC routers are a big help, but they don't save as much labor as you might imagine, as compared to the traditional pin routers with good tooling. Remember how many millions of instruments Fender turned out with pin routers, very efficiently, a few decades ago.

To me, the gradation between Mass Produced and Handmade is about the total number of hours put in on each instrument, regardless of the types of machines and level of technology used. Inexpensive basses are built in large quantities at one time, putting only a few labor hours into each one. Expensive instruments are built in small quantities, putting 50 or 100 labor hours into each one. It's really a simple as that.

Expensive instruments can be built using CNC machines and still require 50 hours of skilled detail labor. Doesn't that qualify as Handmade?

I'll probably eventually build myself a couple of specialized CNC machines to do some of the grunt work in building my basses. The machines are getting cheaper every year, and the technology is getting easier to work with. But I'm always going to build my basses in small quantities with lots of hand labor (by me).
 
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Okay, Since this seems to be more of an anti-CNC thread than a handbuilt thread, I have to put this out there. Unless they are making every cut with a handsaw and hollowing out every cavity with a chisel, what's the difference between a cut made on a CNC machine and a cut made by a man using a hand-held router and the template/jig? I'm not saying one is any better than the other, Just that if you're looking for truly handbuilt basses, your list is going to end up being rather short.
 
I still build my basses the old-fashioned way, using routers and fixtures to cut the main dimensions and surfaces of the bodies and necks. No CNC here. But I design my basses in AutoCad, and print out patterns to make the routing templates. Does that count? There are a lot of us Luthiers who still do it that old-fashioned way.

It's really hard to define "handmade" these days. Many small high-end builders now use CNC in place of the traditional pin routers to rough out the wood parts. But they still put a huge amount of skilled, detail labor into trimming and fitting the parts together. CNC routers are a big help, but they don't save as much labor as you might imagine, as compared to the traditional pin routers with good tooling. Remember how many millions of instruments Fender turned out with pin routers, very efficiently, a few decades ago.

To me, the gradation between Mass Produced and Handmade is about the total number of hours put in on each instrument, regardless of the types of machines and level of technology used. Inexpensive basses are built in large quantities at one time, putting only a few labor hours into each one. Expensive instruments are built in small quantities, putting 50 or 100 labor hours into each one. It's really a simple as that.

Expensive instruments can be built using CNC machines and still require 50 hours of skilled detail labor. Doesn't that qualify as Handmade?

I'll probably eventually build myself a couple of specialized CNC machines to do some of the grunt work in building my basses. The machines are getting cheaper every year, and the technology is getting easier to work with. But I'm always going to build my basses in small quantities with lots of hand labor (by me).

Very good response.

I'm impressed by how thoughtful and articulate TalkBass members are being this morning.
 
I still build my basses the old-fashioned way, using routers and fixtures to cut the main dimensions and surfaces of the bodies and necks. No CNC here. But I design my basses in AutoCad, and print out patterns to make the routing templates. Does that count? There are a lot of us Luthiers who still do it that old-fashioned way.

It's really hard to define "handmade" these days. Many small high-end builders now use CNC in place of the traditional pin routers to rough out the wood parts. But they still put a huge amount of skilled, detail labor into trimming and fitting the parts together. CNC routers are a big help, but they don't save as much labor as you might imagine, as compared to the traditional pin routers with good tooling. Remember how many millions of instruments Fender turned out with pin routers, very efficiently, a few decades ago.

To me, the gradation between Mass Produced and Handmade is about the total number of hours put in on each instrument, regardless of the types of machines and level of technology used. Inexpensive basses are built in large quantities at one time, putting only a few labor hours into each one. Expensive instruments are built in small quantities, putting 50 or 100 labor hours into each one. It's really a simple as that.

Expensive instruments can be built using CNC machines and still require 50 hours of skilled detail labor. Doesn't that qualify as Handmade?

I'll probably eventually build myself a couple of specialized CNC machines to do some of the grunt work in building my basses. The machines are getting cheaper every year, and the technology is getting easier to work with. But I'm always going to build my basses in small quantities with lots of hand labor (by me).

Really well said as always Bruce.

Builders like Valenti and Sadowsky get too much flack IMO for being "parts" basses when the reality is that they both spend a ton of time doing all the detail work by hand and the proof is in the pudding with what great instruments they turn out.

And to further that point, the very FIRST builder listed in the OP - Fodera - now uses a CNC machine to rough cut bodies and they have a PLEK machine in their shop. Using the CNC machine gives them a quicker, more efficient and consistent first cut of the body blank but it certainly doesn't change the fact that there is an enormous amount of hand labor and years of expertise used to create each bass.

But to add to the thread, Chris Stambaugh and Invalid Link Removed do all their builds by hand.

I believe Jimmy Coppolo (Alleva Coppolo) has started using a CNC for rough cuts but before that he did everything in shop (bodies, necks, pickups, preamps etc) except the finish which he outsourced previously but now does himself I believe.

What's funny to me is that when Chris Stambaugh was building my hollowbody (this one) he was trying to decide how to do the joint for the set neck and he said, "It's times like these that I wish I had a CNC machine and then I'd do it just like Rickenbacker did their semi-hollows". And ALan Cringean has a friend (Hadyn Williams of Guitars) do some CNC work for him on things like wooden pickup covers or fret slots for a fanned fret bass. Again, to me it's all about the end product and using the best tools/methods to get you there.
 
Okay, Since this seems to be more of an anti-CNC thread than a handbuilt thread, I have to put this out there. Unless they are making every cut with a handsaw and hollowing out every cavity with a chisel, what's the difference between a cut made on a CNC machine and a cut made by a man using a hand-held router and the template/jig? I'm not saying one is any better than the other, Just that if you're looking for truly handbuilt basses, your list is going to end up being rather short.

far too true, and I agree wholeheartedly, I take an almost all by-hand approach with most of my builds - only using a cordless drill for tuner holes, other than that resorting primarily to various hand saws and a set of chisels. To be honest, from a commercial perspective there really isn't much point in it - you can get the same job done both faster and cheaper with either a hand router and some templates or a CNC machine. That's one of the reasons why I don't build things from a commercial basis - it's just not feasible with my "I don't really like power tools" philosophy. If I WERE to start up a work shop, you'd be seeing lots of power tools.
 
I won't pay for a hand made bass unless absolutely everything is hand made.

The only things I want going into the factory are uncut logs, raw ore, crude oil, etc.

And the so-called luthier better have damn well made sure no machines were involved in the harvest of the raw materials.

Or not, because if you are going to start to draw lines between things handmade, things machine-made on site, and this made offsite and purchased, you are going to have a hard time. You have to judge on more than that alone.

Would you rather have a bass that someone like Sadowski or Lull made using some CNC cut parts or a bass made by a teenager in his garage from salvaged timber and electronics made from stereo parts. One is technically more handmade than the other...
 
For those of you who don't know who Bruce Johnson is:

http://www.xstrange.com/

Very cool stuff.


Goodness gracious......I want
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