Trails on Delay/Reverb

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by meursault42, May 15, 2012.


  1. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Why don't more pedal builders include a buffered option for their reverb and delay pedals to facilitate effect trails? Maybe I'm alone here, but it just seems like it's an obvious option that players would want.
     
  2. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    I agree that it's a very desirable feature. That said, there are two reasons "why", that I can think of. For mass-manufacturers, it is cheapest to have just one bypass system for all of your pedals, something simple that can just be tacked on to whatever effect circuit. And for boutique builders, most of them don't know anything about making a buffered bypass, they just stick a 3PDT in the box and call it good. So there's a much smaller percentage of pedal brands where they (a) have the knowhow, (b) make a reverb or delay pedal, and (c) care to develop a unique mix/bypass circuit just for that one effect.
     
  3. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Thanks bongo! Insightful as always.

    The Malekko 616 comes to mind as one that has TBp/BBp, but I'm not even sure if it does the trails thing. From what I can tell (from demos...never tried one), it was just their way of dealing with hi-freq attenuation inherent in the design while in TBp mode.

    I'll have to research it more, but it really does seem like MOST of the delay/verb pedals made these days DON'T have this option, which to me is a real head-scratcher....
     
  4. 4StringAxe

    4StringAxe

    Jul 27, 2009
    The Hardwire DL-8 and RV-7 both have a trail switch. When set to trails the buffered bypass seems pretty good to my untrained ears, and when switched off it is true bypass.
     
  5. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Yeah, I need to try the RV7. It's stupid I know, but I'm just so turned off by the outward aesthetic appearance of those pedals...I think that's the only reason I haven't already tried it....
     
  6. scotch

    scotch It's not rocket science!

    Nov 12, 2006
    Albany, NY USA
    Please see Profile for Endorsement disclosures
    You definitely have to search for those functions!

    Bongo's comment: "And for boutique builders, most of them don't know anything about making a buffered bypass, they just stick a 3PDT in the box and call it good." makes me scratch my head a little.

    The TC Hall of Fame reverb that I use allows for either bypass - true bypass without tails, or buffered output with. I use it with the buffered/tails option. Helps to have a buffer last in the chain anyways!

    Then I have an Empress Superdelay (digital delay). While it is true bypass, there is a preset that allows you to turn off the delay, but keep the tails (the pedal stays "on", but the delay input is cut off). Smart option in a true-bypass pedal!

    Seems manufacturers (including "boutique") are getting hipper to the importance of delay tails.

    Perhaps it was the backlash from the over-processed sounds of the 80's and early 90's that skewed effects designers towards true bypass and purer signal flows? Who knows? I do think there are options out there, though - it's the golden age of pedals!
     
  7. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Ah, so there are some options out there. Cool, good to know.

    scotch: that pukeburst p-bass in your avatar is so f***ing awesome! thumbs up!
     
  8. 4StringAxe

    4StringAxe

    Jul 27, 2009
    I really like the RV-7, But it is the first reverb pedal I've used on bass so my opinion isn't bassed on much experience. As far as aesthetics, It looks nice on my board next to the DL-8 ... lol. I like the modulated reverb and the hall ... the reverse not so much.
    And on point, The trails is a nice feature.
     
  9. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Another question: Is it only possible with digital effects?
     
  10. I have the RV7 and like the sound I get out of it, but I have to agree with you about the appearance of it. Just try not to look at it.

    I think the most stupid aspect of the Hardwire boxes is that the rubber foot they use is somehow impervious to Velcro glue. If you want to use Velcro on them you have to rip the rubber foot (and paint) off the bottom. Still sounds nice though.
     
  11. mouthmw

    mouthmw

    Jul 19, 2009
    Croatia
    Line 6 Echo Park has a trails switch. Echo Park IMO has the best control layout of any delay pedal of such enclosure size.
     
  12. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Does it also have a TBp option?
     
  13. mouthmw

    mouthmw

    Jul 19, 2009
    Croatia
    True bypass? Nope..
    From the top of my head, TC Flashback has the option of buffered and true bypass.
     
  14. 4StringAxe

    4StringAxe

    Jul 27, 2009
    It would have been nice if they put the trail switch on the outside of the pedal to .. imo :D
     
  15. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Right?...simple push button switch on the outside... batta bing batta boom
     
  16. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    I did say "most", not "all", and that's what I meant. :) For every one example of a boutique builder who does a buffered bypass, there are fifty that just rely on the easiness and popularity of the 3PDT.
    Well, that, but mainly the dreaded "tone suck" that resulted from long chains of pedals with poorly-designed buffered bypass. Everyone in the 80's and into the 90's had a chain of DOD, Digitech, MXR, EHX, and a bunch of other lousy-bypass pedals; when the early boutiquers like Zach Vex came out with pedals that had mechanical true bypass, and could fairly legitimately claim to have defeated "tone suck", the crowd went wild. After that, consumers began to demand true bypass as if it was the most important decision in buying a pedal. Barber even wrote a blog post (now deleted) about how he tried to convince his customers that a good buffer was the way to go, and they would not bite, so he was "forced" to go back to using mechanical TBP, with the buffer as just an option on request.
     
  17. scotch

    scotch It's not rocket science!

    Nov 12, 2006
    Albany, NY USA
    Please see Profile for Endorsement disclosures
    Yeah, the pendulum has swung both ways for sure! I *think* that I'm somewhere in the middle of the debate. I know the benefits of buffers, but have also been in in the position to see tone improve when some are removed.
     
  18. bongomania

    bongomania Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    Certainly! For one thing, a bad buffer will turn anybody off buffers--and there have been a LOT of bad bypass buffers on the market, for many years, from most of the big brands. For another, a buffer (even good one) can "wreck" the lovely interaction between a passive bass and a vintage-style fuzz.

    It's all about choosing the right tool for the specific job. :)
     
  19. meursault42

    meursault42

    Jun 21, 2006
    Repeat Repeat Repeat
     
  20. amos

    amos

    Oct 23, 2003
    SE Portland Oregon
    I know the analog Diamond Memory Lane delay pedal as a mix out and delay out. the mix out is true bypass, the delay out is buffered. However if you only use the delay out, you have no way of controlling the mix, only the volume, I would imagine.

    I've heard there's an internal switch to change the mix output to buffered, can anyone confirm this? If it does, then having a switch to change from true to buffered on the face of the pedal would be doable.

    This is the delay that's currently on my radar. the Eventide and Strymon digital boxes are amazing and truly versatile, but I love the dark analog feedback and feedback loops of the moog and diamond analog delays.
     
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