Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Trampling on some "Sacred Cows"... (Scroll Bass, Tele Bass)
- Thread starter Dark Horse
- Start date
It's nice to embrace tradition and pay homage to it, but sometimes you have to go past tradition and not be afraid to tear it down and rebuild it as your own... that's what the people who came before us did...seems like it's the right thing to do. Don't get me wrong, I love P Basses, J Basses, T Basses, Scrolls, weirdo MIJ basses, etc, etc .... I'm just not into building them at this particular moment. I'm sure I'll build more of them in the future though. For now I'm having fun "dancing on cows !"
You should post pics of the Tele you're "improving" when you get it completed.
Nothing wrong with tweaking a classic design, for fun or need, weather it's major tweaks or minor.
Shaping the pickguard template -
I cut the basic shape on a scroll saw, then used a drum sander attachment in my drill press to smooth out the outside lines. After that was done, I attached the template to the body and used a pattern tracer bit (with bearing on the bottom) to route the sections that touch the f-holes... this way the pickguard will match the f-holes exactly.
I still have to cut out the pickup hole, and locate the control and output jack holes, as well as a bit of final sanding...but this should show you what it will look like "shape-wise".
Man, that's already shaping up tasty. Nice work!
It's nice to embrace tradition and pay homage to it, but sometimes you have to go past tradition and not be afraid to tear it down and rebuild it as your own... that's what the people who came before us did...seems like it's the right thing to do. Don't get me wrong, I love P Basses, J Basses, T Basses, Scrolls, weirdo MIJ basses, etc, etc .... I'm just not into building them at this particular moment. I'm sure I'll build more of them in the future though. For now I'm having fun "dancing on cows !"
You should post pics of the Tele you're "improving" when you get it completed.
Aye. Tradition, to me, is inspiration. Whether it comes from the things I like about traditional designs (such as the J's offset waiste, or Alembic's Omega tail), or things I don't like (such as the general "fatness" of Fender body designs), it inspires me to design something different, if not completely original. These days, I think being completely original is not only counter-productive, but possibly impossible.
I really like the design, but not the back part of the pickguard. I also think(unless I'm mistaken) that the pickguard doesn't take into account the bridge position.
But I really, really like the concept and think this is gonna be awesome when it's done!
But I really, really like the concept and think this is gonna be awesome when it's done!
Glad you dig it ...I'm liking it more and more as it is shaping up !
Note the "full face" design of the Scroll Bass pickguard....that's what i'm modeling the pg after.
Glad you dig it ...I'm liking it more and more as it is shaping up !
Note the "full face" design of the Scroll Bass pickguard....that's what i'm modeling the pg after.
Yep, I think that'll work!
I've made up about a hundred Scroll Bass pickguards, and I can tell you that they are not easy!
A couple of tips, from my experience:
First, if you're using the standard vinyl pickguard material, your design is probably too large for any of the common sheets sold by the usual luthier suppliers. That's always been a problem for me. The only source for larger sheets that I'm aware of is WD. They'll sell you a "half sheet" which is about 24" x 48" of most of their materials. That's where I get mine. I use the 5-layer b/w/b/w/b material.
Second, on that style of pickguard, it's really important to get the edges that run around the inner edges of the F-holes to fit well. If the pickguard sticks out too far, you get a sharp edge. If it's not far enough, you see the edge of the body, which will look ugly. It's got to be just flush with the edge of the body.
After a lot of frustration over the years, I now match-trim every pickguard to fit each body. My pickguard routing pattern has the neck pocket, pickup pockets, tailpiece pockets, screw holes, etc, right to size, but the edges around the F-holes are left about 1/8" oversize. With the body all trimmed and sanded, but not painted, I fit the pickguard in place and drill all the screw holes. With the pickguard screwed down to the body, I reach up through the F-holes with a scriber and scribe the actual shape of the edge of the F-holes onto the underside of the material. Then I pull the pickguard off and trim it carefully to the scribe lines. I hand file the bevel around the F-hole edges, not taking it to a sharp edge. I test fit it again to make sure it's right before painting the body.
The best way I've found to hand trim pickguards is to use a sharp, fairly coarse file. I usually use an 8" half-round "2nd cut" file. Once it's shaped and blended, go over the edge lightly with a sharp scraper. I have some special scrapers that I make up out of tool steel flat stock, but the blade from a box cutter-style knife will work too. The scraper will leave the edge smooth and bright. Don't try to sand the edges; the abrasive particles will embed in the vinyl and leave it dull and scratchy looking.
You've got to have some patience. Even with good routing fixtures, I spend about 2 hours 20 minutes on every one of my Scroll Bass pickguards.
A couple of tips, from my experience:
First, if you're using the standard vinyl pickguard material, your design is probably too large for any of the common sheets sold by the usual luthier suppliers. That's always been a problem for me. The only source for larger sheets that I'm aware of is WD. They'll sell you a "half sheet" which is about 24" x 48" of most of their materials. That's where I get mine. I use the 5-layer b/w/b/w/b material.
Second, on that style of pickguard, it's really important to get the edges that run around the inner edges of the F-holes to fit well. If the pickguard sticks out too far, you get a sharp edge. If it's not far enough, you see the edge of the body, which will look ugly. It's got to be just flush with the edge of the body.
After a lot of frustration over the years, I now match-trim every pickguard to fit each body. My pickguard routing pattern has the neck pocket, pickup pockets, tailpiece pockets, screw holes, etc, right to size, but the edges around the F-holes are left about 1/8" oversize. With the body all trimmed and sanded, but not painted, I fit the pickguard in place and drill all the screw holes. With the pickguard screwed down to the body, I reach up through the F-holes with a scriber and scribe the actual shape of the edge of the F-holes onto the underside of the material. Then I pull the pickguard off and trim it carefully to the scribe lines. I hand file the bevel around the F-hole edges, not taking it to a sharp edge. I test fit it again to make sure it's right before painting the body.
The best way I've found to hand trim pickguards is to use a sharp, fairly coarse file. I usually use an 8" half-round "2nd cut" file. Once it's shaped and blended, go over the edge lightly with a sharp scraper. I have some special scrapers that I make up out of tool steel flat stock, but the blade from a box cutter-style knife will work too. The scraper will leave the edge smooth and bright. Don't try to sand the edges; the abrasive particles will embed in the vinyl and leave it dull and scratchy looking.
You've got to have some patience. Even with good routing fixtures, I spend about 2 hours 20 minutes on every one of my Scroll Bass pickguards.
Thanks a TON for the info, Bruce ! I really appreciate it.
Your work has been a big inspiration ...in fact it was part of why I decided to go with a "Scroll influenced" bass instead of a straight Scroll Bass...your work is just great and I didn't want to be seen as competing ....just a "respect" thing for me.
One thing I can say without hesitation...and I'm only partway through this build: Scroll Basses and Scroll influenced basses like this one are a LOT of work. Everything has to be dead on, there's a lot more routing going on, etc...gives me added respect for what you do. I've built a bunch of instruments, and quite honestly, this one ranks way up there in the "must be perfect, and that's tricky" department !
What I'm thinking on the pickguard (and thanks for the tip on WD, BTW) is that first I'll route it at 90 degrees (so no bevel) ...that way the F-Holes are flush with the pickguard....then I'll go back with a 45 degree bit and route the parts of the pickguard that don't back up to the F-Holes. That's my initial thought anyway. A bit more work perhaps, but I think it will look nice.
I'm considering finishing the bass in red with a black guard... I might check and see if WD carries B/R/B/R/B instead of the usual black-white combo ...might look sharp.
Anyway, Like I say ....I definitely appreciate the advice and will make use of the "voice of experience" !
Have a great evening ...and keep up the great work !
Your work has been a big inspiration ...in fact it was part of why I decided to go with a "Scroll influenced" bass instead of a straight Scroll Bass...your work is just great and I didn't want to be seen as competing ....just a "respect" thing for me.
One thing I can say without hesitation...and I'm only partway through this build: Scroll Basses and Scroll influenced basses like this one are a LOT of work. Everything has to be dead on, there's a lot more routing going on, etc...gives me added respect for what you do. I've built a bunch of instruments, and quite honestly, this one ranks way up there in the "must be perfect, and that's tricky" department !
What I'm thinking on the pickguard (and thanks for the tip on WD, BTW) is that first I'll route it at 90 degrees (so no bevel) ...that way the F-Holes are flush with the pickguard....then I'll go back with a 45 degree bit and route the parts of the pickguard that don't back up to the F-Holes. That's my initial thought anyway. A bit more work perhaps, but I think it will look nice.
I'm considering finishing the bass in red with a black guard... I might check and see if WD carries B/R/B/R/B instead of the usual black-white combo ...might look sharp.
Anyway, Like I say ....I definitely appreciate the advice and will make use of the "voice of experience" !
Have a great evening ...and keep up the great work !
Got a bit more work done .... now I can relax for a few, take a shower, pack up, and head to my gig !
Anyway, I routed the neck pocket ...perfect...nice and tight. but not so tight you strain to get the neck in place.
And then I did the body cavity routes. I decided to make the pickup route larger in case I decide to build any more of these with pickups other than a Filtertron. That way I only will have to make the template for the pickguard, instead of a pickguard AND body routing template.
And just for the heck of it, I put it all together to make sure it all fits...it does ! Of course the real pickguard won't be 1/2" thick !
Anyway, I routed the neck pocket ...perfect...nice and tight. but not so tight you strain to get the neck in place.
And then I did the body cavity routes. I decided to make the pickup route larger in case I decide to build any more of these with pickups other than a Filtertron. That way I only will have to make the template for the pickguard, instead of a pickguard AND body routing template.
And just for the heck of it, I put it all together to make sure it all fits...it does ! Of course the real pickguard won't be 1/2" thick !
Thanks!I'm not really wanting to venture too far into "Scroll territory" ...just give the overall feel...BUT I had considered (on a future build using a piezo bridge in conjunction with the magnetic pickup. Not sure...just kicking around ideas right now. The Scroll pup/assembly is badass, but I'm gonna leave that stuff to Bruce !
- Jan 28, 2009
- 2,929
- 4,152
- Disclosures
- Owner: Moonshine Custom Guitars
- Apr 20, 2009
- 2,101
- 929
- Disclosures
- I'm the Squier of Fenderbirds
Looking forward to the finished product!
Any tips for cutting a neck pocket? Template, go slow? I have to slightly widen and lengthen an Epiphone body to fit a fender neck.
Any tips for cutting a neck pocket? Template, go slow? I have to slightly widen and lengthen an Epiphone body to fit a fender neck.
Make a template, check it two or three times, make sure it's straight, and lock it down tight ...the go slow ! I use a forstner bit to get most of the wood out of the way before routing ...saves wear and tear on the router bits.
