Excellent.
Now, just the regular TB questions: what about that modulation between Intro and Verse?; what about that C#min7 chord?
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Transcribing half-step modulations and key signature choice
- Thread starter Trilobita
- Start date
Excellent.
Now, just the regular TB questions: what about that modulation between Intro and Verse?; what about that C#min7 chord?
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,408
- 9,865
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
The verse starts with a Dm9 (minor, not major), but the tonality looks like C maj to me (see the G dominant function). So that's not really a 1/2 step modulation in the real sense.
The Intro has the following chords:
Dbmaj7 / Eb x 3 (4 flats in the Key)
and (preparation for Modulation) E/D.
Verse: Dmin9 ...
The rest of the song, is related to C major.
Let's look at a different pop song (with an extremely simple bass line) - Rock Dj - Robbie Williams.
(From my "happy times".)
I've found the chords for that song from here:
Robbie Williams - Rock Dj - Free Downloadable Sheet Music
All Internet resources say, the song is in the key of G major (one sharp).
I'm trying to understand why(!) the song is written in the key of G major.
There are only very few measures where one could hear that G chord.
And that G chord does not sound like any TONIC chord.
(It's on the last page.)
(From my "happy times".)
I've found the chords for that song from here:
Robbie Williams - Rock Dj - Free Downloadable Sheet Music
All Internet resources say, the song is in the key of G major (one sharp).
I'm trying to understand why(!) the song is written in the key of G major.
There are only very few measures where one could hear that G chord.
And that G chord does not sound like any TONIC chord.
(It's on the last page.)
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Very cool to see this thread evolving. I am not in a position to contribute much, but I am keeping track of it with genuine interest.
I would just suggest, don't get too hung up on the key signature. The key signature doesn't determine the key, it's just a notational convenience meant to reflect it to a greater or lesser extent. By "convenience" I simply mean that it saves having to write a lot of accidentals. Technically, you could write a passage in any key you like using any key signature you like (eg, an E major passage with 5 flats in the key signature) ... IF you wanted to put in the work it would take to get all the accidentals right. But why do that if you don't have to? Most folks wouldn't, quite sensibly.
IOW, the fact that the sheet music uses the key sig conventionally associated with G major doesn't mean that the song is in G major. What determines the key is what the harmony is actually doing. And you're right, what it's doing is not G major in any meaningful way. You might get more benefit out of thinking of this song as essentially working in D mixolydian.
As Richard Lindsey points out, the tune has a key signature of 1 sharp but it is not in G major.
Actually, this tune is not a tonal tune at all. It lacks all the defining characteristics that are the essence of tonal music: in particular, the absence of dominant to tonic cadences is striking. That is why the scarce G major chords do not sound at all like a tonic G major.
Actually, this tune should rather by analyzed as a modal tune, in D mixolydian (hence the key signature of 1 sharp). The is clearly indicated by the presence of numerous non-functional chords above a D bass pedal, as well as the melody revolving around the note D.
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Sure, that's probably the most convenient way to do it. I'm just adding the point that the song could have been written with no key sig at all and still have been in D mixo if the accidentals were correctly notated.
That slash chord of C/D belongs to the Dominant chord "family".
It could be interpreted as D7(or D9)sus4 chord that produces a "less" extreme Dominant sound.
What's more, all chords from that song "naturally" fit the G major scale.
The melody (notes)clearly identifies D mixolydian.
But unless it actually performs a dominant function, which is more likely to be a function of tonality than of modality as a rule, it isn't really a dominant in the sense I believe Papageno meant.
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By the most common definition of tonality in Western musical contexts, I'd say you're 100% correct about that. There are, however, some more expansive definitions of tonality that would probably accept this example as tonal, if only in the negative sense of its not being atonal, bitonal, or polytonal. And this example, even if it lacks dominant-tonic cadences as you rightly note, does have one component of tonal music, which is the the sense of a tonal center or "tonic" (in this case, D).
So, an observation: Today's discussion (re: the Robbie Williams tune) points out a common misconception about notated music, that if the key signature suggests a particular key the tune must be "in" that key.
But remember what music notation is for: It primarily serves as either a document of what was performed, or shorthand to allow for a subsequent performance.
By writing a single sharp in the key signature [sic] the copyist has simply A) documented and condensed a particular prevalence from the original performance, and/or B) alerted any musician intent on performing this piece to a specific oft-recurring commonality that will allow them to navigate the notation more efficiently.
iow, it's only our own baggage from centuries of music theory that makes us want to say "One sharp in the key signature? Why, this must be in G!" ...rather than simply noting "oh, I'd better remember to play all the Fs as F sharps (unless otherwise instructed by accidentals)."
But remember what music notation is for: It primarily serves as either a document of what was performed, or shorthand to allow for a subsequent performance.
By writing a single sharp in the key signature [sic] the copyist has simply A) documented and condensed a particular prevalence from the original performance, and/or B) alerted any musician intent on performing this piece to a specific oft-recurring commonality that will allow them to navigate the notation more efficiently.
iow, it's only our own baggage from centuries of music theory that makes us want to say "One sharp in the key signature? Why, this must be in G!" ...rather than simply noting "oh, I'd better remember to play all the Fs as F sharps (unless otherwise instructed by accidentals)."
Sure: when writing it is not tonal, I do not mean it is atonal. In particular it has a clear tonal center which is D.
It is unfortunate that the established language is so misleading: as pointed out by Richard Lindsey, the "strict" sense of "tonal" here, refers to what is called "common practice tonal music", i.e. music based upon functional harmony and in particular dominant-to-tonic cadences; "tonal" music in this sense encompassing music ranging from the barock period all the way to bebop.
One could also use the word "tonal" in a looser sense to include all music based upon a tonal center, and thus include all of modal music.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,408
- 9,865
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
WHy I shouldn't post in the morning. I was thinking the OP was referring to a half step UP modulation, and fired away. It is most definitely possible to think of it as a half step DOWN modulation. Back to coffee
Should you write that kind of song for any Academic (Musical) Institution, it would be rejected because of
"There is NO clearly pronounced Dominant Chord", but...
In Pop music...
I remember years ago (while working with piano/keyboard players (Composers by education), serious PROs liked that kinds of "intricacies", "Tonic innuendoes", and all kinds of regular Classical Harmony "but how...."
1. We all agree, it's D mixolydian - Parental Scale G major.
Verse starts with ii7 / V(7) - Amin7 / D(7), but it has never resolves properly.
Why?
Just because it's cool, as my former PRO musicians/composers used to say.
I think that Bass pedaling D ( as the NOTE D and as a "hanging" DOMINANT reminder) is also an interesting harmonic device/composition device.
Another interesting thing (it's only my "vision"/idea"), during the following chord movement: C/D - Bmin7/D - Amin7/D - D, I can clearly hear (after listening carefully)
C (as Subdominant) - Bmin7/D (as TONIC - Gmaj(7) - Amin7/D ( from Subdominat Family) - and D as V(7).
Reharmonization, Chord Substitutions, etc... Nothing new for Robbie Williams.
Anyway. I don't have any issues with that one sharp in the signature.
(It's only my amateur thoughts and only my vision! We have a lot of good teachers/TB members to explain music harmony.)
Let's look at one more Robbie's song, "Long Before I die".
(It has nothing(!) to do with my age!
)
The song has everything that this thread asks for - lots of borrowed chords, modulation, etc...
A very nice and PRO bass line for such a simple Pop song.
Bass – Invalid Link Removed
It's in the key of A major, but from the get-go we get a borrowed chord of Emin as Emin/A.
Next. The song includes several "harmonic" templates (by using borrowed chords) that a bass player should internalize and recognize while listening.
From the song: F - G - A
A Em/A
She's show-in' me fac_es
F#m |F F F G|
I should nev_er have seen_
Back to A.
Another frequently heard harmonic "template"(chord movement) is
A - Aaug - A6
Pre-Chorus:
Aadd9 Aaug(add9)
Well these are strange_ days
A(6/9)
We're liv-ing in to-day
G
C'est la vie I say
The song has a nice modulation to C.
G G
C'est la vie I-say, I_say, I_say
Chorus:
C Am F G7
I hope I'm old______ be-fore I die_
C Am
I hope I live_ to re-live_
F Bb
The days gone by_
Let's look at one more Robbie's song, "Long Before I die".
(It has nothing(!) to do with my age!
)The song has everything that this thread asks for - lots of borrowed chords, modulation, etc...
A very nice and PRO bass line for such a simple Pop song.
Bass – Invalid Link Removed
It's in the key of A major, but from the get-go we get a borrowed chord of Emin as Emin/A.
Next. The song includes several "harmonic" templates (by using borrowed chords) that a bass player should internalize and recognize while listening.
From the song: F - G - A
A Em/A
She's show-in' me fac_es
F#m |F F F G|
I should nev_er have seen_
Back to A.
Another frequently heard harmonic "template"(chord movement) is
A - Aaug - A6
Pre-Chorus:
Aadd9 Aaug(add9)
Well these are strange_ days
A(6/9)
We're liv-ing in to-day
G
C'est la vie I say
The song has a nice modulation to C.
G G
C'est la vie I-say, I_say, I_say
Chorus:
C Am F G7
I hope I'm old______ be-fore I die_
C Am
I hope I live_ to re-live_
F Bb
The days gone by_
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Next example is about Modulation to a Parallel Key.
Lisa Stansfield - In all the right places.
The song switches between B major and B minor.
Here is that song:
About various kinds of modulations:
The Types of Modulation
Lisa Stansfield - In all the right places.
The song switches between B major and B minor.
Here is that song:
About various kinds of modulations:
The Types of Modulation
In the Notation Forum, ChrisDev has posted a bass transcription of Donny Hathaway's, Put your hand in the hand.
The song has lots of modulations.
There is one place where the band moves from F# to C#min through E6 and G#/D# chords.
Would you notate the G#/D# chord as Ab/Eb?
