Double Bass transcription techniques?

[AllieM]

I'm having a bear of a time getting through my first transcription, Whims of Chambers, mostly in the walking choruses. I do have some classical training but this is my first assignment from a jazz teacher. I'm using a slow down extension on youtube to slow down to 75% playback, it does a pretty good job maintaining correct pitch but it's just hard for me to hear whats going on in several measures. My teacher didn't give me any hints on how to transcribe, i asked if i'm allowed to slow it down and he said yes but to beware pitch can become harder to get correct. Is there any sage advice? This has me wondering if there's something wrong with me that I'm having such trouble getting through it.

 

[Lee Moses]

I haven't done much transcription in recent years, so I may not be the most qualified to answer. But it is something that gets much easier with practice. For now, I would focus on phrases over individual notes. Listen to where the line is going and the feel of the line, and try to recapture that. If an occasional note or two isn't exactly correct, it's not the end of the world.

 

[crd]

Purchase Transcribe! from 7 string software (?). It is worth the money and is much easier than the YouTube player. Go phrase by phrase. If you can figure out the exact pitch of something, do your best and come back to it day after day. I often find incorrect notes in published transcriptions; it's not a big deal. Same thing with rhythms; don't sweat the details and do your best. I aim for the downbeats but there is no way to accurately write down a line that swings.

Make sure to sing it. I write my transcriptions down but I do that last. There are many ways to get it done.

After the first few, it will get faster and faster. Bravo to your teacher. Take solace in the fact that PC did the same work you are doing with his favorite players. I imagine doing this with a record player. Some people would purchase reel to reel machines just to slow things down. Talk about a pita.

 

[AllieM]

Purchase Transcribe! from 7 string software (?). It is worth the money and is much easier than the YouTube player. Go phrase by phrase. If you can figure out the exact pitch of something, do your best and come back to it day after day. I often find incorrect notes in published transcriptions; it's not a big deal. Same thing with rhythms; don't sweat the details and do your best. I aim for the downbeats but there is no way to accurately write down a line that swings.

Make sure to sing it. I write my transcriptions down but I do that last. There are many ways to get it done.

After the first few, it will get faster and faster. Bravo to your teacher. Take solace in the fact that PC did the same work you are doing with his favorite players. I imagine doing this with a record player. Some people would purchase reel to reel machines just to slow things down. Talk about a pita.

OH! that software looks like a game changer! Thx since this is my first 'homework' assignment i wanted to be as accurate as possible.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Another software recommendation is “Amazing Slow Downer”

 

[Wasnex]

Back in the day I used to learn songs with a turntable. No slowing down...but lot's of lifting the tone arm.

Repetition is very helpful. Play a short snip over and over again until you can hum the notes. Then transcribe what you are humming.

I found that it can help to clear your mind, close your eyes, and really try to focus in on what you hear. Let your consciousness sort of resonate with the bass line.

If that fails, then you analyze the music...what is the chord and key center? What surrounding notes are you sure about? Use this knowledge improvise what you think makes sense. Try a variety of options that you think works, and sometimes you can nail it.

If you have really studied a player, you may develop some sense of what they would typically play.

 

[MuseChaser]

Another vote for being able to sing each phrase first. Also....don't be afraid to be wrong. In other words, write SOMETHING down; for whatever weird psycological reasons, it's way easier to have something wrong down and then hear, see, and correct an error than it is to wait and make sure you're right before putting anything down.

Capitalize on your strengths. Mine happens to be in hearing chord progressions, so I notate the chord changes first, which helps me figure out what the most likely notes in the melody are.

Sketch out the form first... AABA song form, eight bars each section? 32 bar A/A'? 12 bar blues? Something else? Then, start putting in the obvious target notes and rhythms that are obvious and easy to hear, and add notes around them as you begin to hear how those key notes are approached and left.

Make mistakes and correct them; it's an iterative process. The more you do it, the fewer iterations you'll need.

 

[DaddySangBass]

Hearing bass an octave up helps me hear pitch better, in context of key/chord and at slower tempo as mentioned above. Audacity is my go to tool for this. Good luck!

 

[ryco]

Back in the day I used to learn songs with a turntable. No slowing down...but lot's of lifting the tone arm.

Off topic = remembering when turntables had the 16rpm option (= 33 1/3 at approx half speed). How I learned Stanley Clarke songs = "Hello Jeff".
Like your advice!
Carry on

 

[Michael Case]

Find the CD, the sound quality will be better and stand up to being slowed down. Don't worry about mistakes, you'll learn from them.

 

[dreamadream99]

Repetition is very helpful. Play a short snip over and over again until you can hum the notes. Then transcribe what you are humming.

this is the correct answer.

There are currently AI based software solutions, that will accurately do the transcribing for you, but what do you learn that way? That’s like using a calculator to do long division.

Play one measure over and over, until you can accurately sing it, then play what you are singing till it matches, then write what you are playing. Yes, it will take time at first, but the more you do it the quicker and better you will get. in the long run, this is a much better course for your musical progression. Dropping 20 bucks for a program that does it for you will not make you any better at it.

P.S. After you get good at doing it the proper way, then buy the software. Let it do the groundwork, but still check your work by ear before committing it to paper.

 

[Anthony White]

I like the interface of Amazing Slow Downer better than Transcribe!, but that’s a preference. It’s simpler. ASD works with Apple Music, but not with Spotify. I use it on my iPad. It does slow things down, but I’m ambivalent about how much slowing things down helps for basslines. Mostly it’s really valuable to loop things are repeat them.

Different listening devices can help. A good set of headphones might open things up or make them more transparent.

I aim to get the major landmarks of the tune first. Where does it go to the IV chord, where does it go to the V chord, is there a turnaround to get back to the top?

And then get the material that’s clear down first. If there is a bar or a phrase that is really unclear, I move on to the next one. Sometimes getting the note for the first beat of every bar is really valuable. And if beats 2, 3, and 4 are unclear I might skip them, come back and review them later. Forward progress is really valuable.

And many bassists, including PC, have certain ‘walking licks’ that they sometimes repeat to get through certain progressions. maybe you’ll find it later in the recording in a section that is really clear, and on listening back to a section you missed you’ll think, “Wait, I think that he is doing the same thing there.”

 

[jj.833]

I also use a Transcribe, or Youtube when the stuff is simple. I only add that since I sit by a PC when transcribing, I don't do that on bass, rather I play bass guitar or guitar using headphones, and would prefer keyboard if I had one.

I remember transcribing a song from a turntable once. The annoying need to constantly adjust the needle helps tremendously to really focus on the task, helping to do it really fast. It's an interesting lesson to have, though I never repeated it

 

[brianrost]

Another Transcribe user here. So much easier than listening to tapes (how I used to do it).

I use an app on my Mac that can rip audio from YT videos at high speed to get a local copy, then load that into Transcribe.

 

[AllieM]

I've gotten lots out of your comments: Transcribe! really helped, also I purchased a copy of the tune off itunes for $1.29. I'm isolating phrases and singing them out first, have my acoustic guitar and notation paper, can sit down and relax. Transcribe! is a nice tool. I moved past measures I couldn't hear well, I still need to go back and do best guesses for the missing notes. I got through the walking bass section, the melody and solo are easy to hear so I think I'm good.
Couple things I'm noticing about the PC walking lines - there's several questionable notes for intonation (as well as possibly grazing adjacent string), there's some sort of ugly phrases (just going up and down chromatically without any strong harmonic support), the bass sounds not great in upper register, thin w/ odd timber. Also I'm wondering if he tuned down his E? or had an extension? I seem to hear a low C in the walking bass section at one point.

 

[Wasnex]

I've gotten lots out of your comments: Transcribe! really helped, also I purchased a copy of the tune off itunes for $1.29. I'm isolating phrases and singing them out first, have my acoustic guitar and notation paper, can sit down and relax. Transcribe! is a nice tool. I moved past measures I couldn't hear well, I still need to go back and do best guesses for the missing notes. I got through the walking bass section, the melody and solo are easy to hear so I think I'm good.
Couple things I'm noticing about the PC walking lines - there's several questionable notes for intonation (as well as possibly grazing adjacent string), there's some sort of ugly phrases (just going up and down chromatically without any strong harmonic support), the bass sounds not great in upper register, thin w/ odd timber. Also I'm wondering if he tuned down his E? or had an extension? I seem to hear a low C in the walking bass section at one point.

My assumption: Jazz masters don't necessarily read off the lead sheet. The may play alternates changes over some sections or introduce harmonic substitutions at different points of a performance.

So you may have bars where neither the keys nor bass match the written chord. Or you may have bars where keys and bass don't necessarily seem to be entirely on the same page, because they made different choices. As long as the discord is not garishly obvious, it's not really a mistake.

Another aspect consider: In order to understand and enjoy some stylistic aspects of music, it's necessary to have travelled along with the style as it developed. Without the necessary context, a certain motif or line may sound foreign and wrong. If you were along for the ride and listening in the moment, the same line may may come across as incredibly fresh and hip. However perhaps the line becomes popular, meaning everyone is doing it. Years later, someone hearing the line for the first time may perceive it as hackney or horribly cliche.

 

[AllieM]

My assumption: Jazz masters don't necessarily read off the lead sheet. The may play alternates changes over some sections or introduce harmonic substitutions at different points of a performance.

So you may have bars where neither the keys nor bass match the written chord. Or you may have bars where keys and bass don't necessarily seem to be entirely on the same page, because they made different choices. As long as the discord is not garishly obvious, it's not really a mistake.

Another aspect consider: In order to understand and enjoy some stylistic aspects of music, it's necessary to have travelled along with the style as it developed. Without the necessary context, a certain motif or line may sound foreign and wrong. If you were along for the ride and listening in the moment, the same line may may come across as incredibly fresh and hip. However perhaps the line becomes popular, meaning everyone is doing it. Years later, someone hearing the line for the first time may perceive it as hackney or horribly cliche.

I really have to bite my lip not to respond to these assumptions as I'd like to keep this in a positive direction, I'll just say that yes, while notation transcription is new to me (although I've transcribed many bass lines by ear without notating, on my own, for my own education), playing jazz bass is not new to me, nor is it's historical context unfamiliar. Phrasing is subjective, I happen to think (and it's surprising to me) there's a few measures which are weak harmonically (TO ME), of course that might be different for you, it's subjective - that's simply what I noticed. Intonation is intonation, I hear several notes which seem open to interpretation because the intonation is weak. I rarely, if ever hear similar problems in Ray Brown's playing. To be clear, I'm transcribing, that means I'm not using any written materials, I have no lead sheet or chord chart, I'm not using any technology other than as a means of playback. At this point I'm merely notating what I'm hearing, tho I do plan on going back to add chords to the notation (again, as I hear it, not from a lead sheet or chord chart).

 

[crd]

Couple things I'm noticing about the PC walking lines - there's several questionable notes for intonation (as well as possibly grazing adjacent string), there's some sort of ugly phrases (just going up and down chromatically without any strong harmonic support), the bass sounds not great in upper register, thin w/ odd timber. Also I'm wondering if he tuned down his E? or had an extension? I seem to hear a low C in the walking bass section at one point.

Are you talking about this track?!?


It's just about perfect... Blues has its own harmonic gravity & rules. The greatest thing about PC is his lines make the changes without spelling things out. Over 50 years later it still sounds fresh.

 

[AllieM]

Are you talking about this track?!?


It's just about perfect... Blues has its own harmonic gravity & rules. The greatest thing about PC is his lines make the changes without spelling things out. Over 50 years later it still sounds fresh.

that's the one! yea for the most part it does sound fine, there's just a few parts in the walking bass choruses which don't appeal to me (and I probably wouldn't notice if I didn't have to transcribe it) but the solo sounds great.

 

[Keith Rawlings]

…Couple things I'm noticing about the PC walking lines - there's several questionable notes for intonation (as well as possibly grazing adjacent string), there's some sort of ugly phrases (just going up and down chromatically without any strong harmonic support), the bass sounds not great in upper register, thin w/ odd timber. Also I'm wondering if he tuned down his E? or had an extension? I seem to hear a low C in the walking bass section at one point.

I’ve wondered the same thing about some of PC’s lines as far as the upper register and intonation are concerned and I wonder how much of that might just be the nuances of gut strings? I could never get anything in thumb position to sound all that great on gut strings. It’s like the notes would be just a hair off from where they usually are on synthetic strings or Spiros. It’s a weird thing.

I do love how Chambers is more than willing to play low register solos. Not enough bass players solo in this manner today and it still sounds refreshing listening to PC do it on recordings some 60+ years later.