Trend towards flats is Driving me mad!

[zombie1965]

Why why why why why why are the some bass players in bands I have been watching for years now following the trend towards using Flats? I find myself walking away mid show when the bass sounds dull and thuddy or worse....like I have an ear full of water. Why are you using flats? In a jazz set-up I get it, anything else and they just sucks the life out of the performance.

Update to clarify my position.....

When I'm not gigging with my band on a Saturday night (one weekend per month unless we get a cancellation) I can be found at this venue enjoying other bands, usually another member of my band comes too or my brother in law who is both a drummer and guitarist.
the live music scene has many regular attendees who over the years I have got to know very well. Most Saturdays you will find at least 10 of this group in the pub/bar specifically for the band. They are a good bunch but quite critical. Some are Ex gigging musicians some just enjoy the music. If I pop in I am usually invited to sit with them. they support most bands well and always get up for a jig and cheer and clap throughout a set. If a band that's usually good have an off night however, they will no doubt pick up on that and mention/discuss it. they will sometimes ask me what I think was wrong and usually I say "nothing they sounded great".
Recently with a semi regular band who I greatly admire has sounded off... the group of fans/critics have picked up on their sound changing and not sounding as clear and focused as usual, I have noticed the same... I am good pals with the bass player of the band and on one occasion I asked him whats changed about the bands set up in the last few times I had seen them? He pointed out he had moved to flats and don't they sound great? I skipped on giving him an answer and changed subject as i wasn't sure of the cause of the muddiness but has a suspicion. then a couple of months later another band who I have heard sound amazing maybe 50 times had a similar issue guess what they had changed? yup bass player had gone onto flats. The fans/critics have picked up on this and have been badgering me for an answer which I'm reluctant to give. another member of my own band and I have discussed the issue and we both think the change in strings is a strong possibility for the muddy undefined sound witch seems to have effected the overall sound of both these groups more than just the bass sound. The band had a gig recently where the bass player had to switch bass for a few numbers, I witnessed this, for a few songs they were sounding awesome.... that spare bass had rounds on....

 

[Root 5]

I like flats because, to me, they best produce the ideal "bass" sound.

 

[Lobster11]

I asked Chris Wood about his string preferences at Camp MMW one year, and he said that although he often prefers the tone of flats, he uses rounds for live shows because his sound projects better in a big room.

 

[zombie1965]

I like flats because, to me, they best produce the ideal "bass" sound.

I was hoping it was an influence from some other group. I still hope the trend is short lived, as its spoiling things for me as a punter, I hate that dull bass sound. I use rounds myself as that's what I prefer. I know its personal preference but surely if punters prefer the sound of rounds, its better for the palyer to use them?

 

[zombie1965]

I asked Chris Wood about his string preferences at Camp MMW one year, and he said that although he often prefers the tone of flats, he uses rounds for live shows because his sound projects better in a big room.

I think the better tone is really a subjective thing, and probably more to do with the extra tension in the flats.
I can see a point for some recording on flats for less string noise.

 

[tallboybass]

I asked Chris Wood about his string preferences at Camp MMW one year, and he said that although he often prefers the tone of flats, he uses rounds for live shows because his sound projects better in a big room.

THAT is very interesting, I've been running into that as well. Enough so that I'll bring a bass with rounds and one with flats and try them both. Usually one sounds much better than the other and it varies by room.

 

[bolophonic]

I'm questioning the entire premise here. Flats are not inherently muddy. Blaming a "trend," etc... All this sounds like the OP is making up a root cause for his or her problem.

 

[Lobster11]

I'm questioning the entire premise here. Flats are not inherently muddy. Blaming a "trend," etc... All this sounds like the OP is making up a root cause for his or her problem.

I don't know if there is actually a "trend" toward flats, but I've certainly noticed a trend toward muddy P.A. mixes. But that's a sound-guy problem, not a bass problem.

That said, it seems to me that rounds give you a better chance of not getting lost in a muddy mix.

 

[zombie1965]

I'm questioning the entire premise here. Flats are not inherently muddy. Blaming a "trend," etc... All this sounds like the OP is making up a root cause for his or her problem.

I really just don't like the sound of flats..... I find them undefined and thuddy.... sounds a bit to upright bass to me, works on jazz not so much on anything else. Your response would be of someone who loves flats. someone who love flats would describe my tone as Zingy and defined.

for about the last 12 months i have seen a trend towards bass players using flats alot more. people i frequent shows with to watch mostly agree it has been detrimental to the overall sound of the bands that have switched. but the players in those bands insist they sound better.

I'm hoping its a short fad

 

[jallenbass]

I've heard plenty of shows where rounds were muddy and lost in the mix. It has more to do with FOH EQ than string type.

 

[pcake]

i like the sound of flats. rather than dull and thuddy, they sound very bassy and rick to me. kind of reminds me that i love rosewood acoustic guitars, while my husband - who has some hearing loss in the mids and uppers - finds rosewood dull and thuddy.

 

[jallenbass]

I like rosewood and mahogany accoustics. My hearing is typical to good for a 30 year old. I get tested regularly.

Sorry. I don't understand what that means in reference to my comment.

 

[zombie1965]

Sorry. I don't understand what that means in reference to my comment.

sorry replied to wrong person

 

[zombie1965]

i like the sound of flats. rather than dull and thuddy, they sound very bassy and rick to me. kind of reminds me that i love rosewood acoustic guitars, while my husband - who has some hearing loss in the mids and uppers - finds rosewood dull and thuddy.

I like rosewood and mahogany accoustics. My hearing is typical to good for a 30 year old. I get tested regularly.

 

[Lobster11]

for about the last 12 months i have seen a trend towards bass players using flats alot more. people i frequent shows with to watch mostly agree it has been detrimental to the overall sound of the bands that have switched. but the players in those bands insist they sound better.

The players in those bands don't know what they sound like in the back of a crowded room.

 

[zombie1965]

The players in those bands don't know what they sound like in the back of a crowded room.

Thats exactly what I think. Im sure if they could hear their performances from the room back to back they would go back to rounds rather quickly.

Rounds have their place but a rock band in a large busy pub or hall isn't it

 

[friendlybass]

My policy is this.
I try not to critique a guys tonal recipe unless he asks, but I will (on the inside) critique his end result. I've heard thin, clanky sound out of a P bass with flats cause the guy eq'd it that way. I've also heard super muddy undefined sound out of a guy who prides himself on new strings every day.
Flabby bass sound isn't fun, but live music sure is otherwise you wouldn't have learned an instrument. Just enjoy it for what it is brother

 

[Lobster11]

I've heard plenty of shows where rounds were muddy and lost in the mix. It has more to do with FOH EQ than string type.

Agreed. But I think it's still true that anything that adds more mids and highs to your tone -- including using rounds instead of flats -- will help you cut through better, all other things equal. The sound guy can make your bass with rounds sound muddy in the mix, but the same guy will make your bass with flats even muddier.

 

[Progfan44]

Dull sound is more likely a result of the player having poopy settings on their amp or a dull attack as opposed to a choice in string, as the link above should prove. That said, I prefer rounds myself, but guys do great stuff with flats too.

 

[Marial]

Yep, I doubt string choice has much to do with. Recently saw Elvis Costello open up for Steely Dan at a big outdoor amphitheater. Sadly, the bass tone awful where our seats were. No idea if he was using rounds or flats but that wasn't a cheap rig nor was the sound system. Another TBer was there he snagged seats in a much better location and said the bass tone was night and day where he was.

Point being, sometimes it doesn't matter what the bassist is using. There are a ton of factors that into what it sounds like out in the crowd.

I love the feel of flats, so that's why I use them.