Trend towards flats is Driving me mad!

[zombie1965]

Dull sound is more likely a result of the player having poopy settings on their amp or a dull attack as opposed to a choice in string, as the link above should prove. That said, I prefer rounds myself, but guys do great stuff with flats too.

Recorded well and EQ done well flats can sound superb

 

[Tractorr]

I find subs being turned up too loud far worse a problem for bass guitar. I always wondered why I couldn't really hear the bass at some of the bigger venues where I see shows. I saw an article recently about how some bands noticed a difference in lowend in the 90s as electronic music became more popular. Subs got bigger and more powerful and now bass guitar was being cranked through them. After reading the article I realized all the places where bass guitar sound best to me are smaller venues that either have no subs at all or much more modest subs. At the larger venues the engineers must just turn down the bass to keep things from getting muddy but then all you hear is the lows and the mids are lost. This isn't true for every band. Larger bands with good sound engineers probably have picked up on this problem and cut lows from the bass channel to handle this exact problem.

Sorry about the change in topics. I just find other things about live sound worse than what type of strings a player decides to use (by the way I tend to like roundwounds more)

 

[One Drop]

I think with the advances in modern PAs and even backlines there is noreason flats can't sound great live, but it takes a sound man that understands how to EQ them to make it work. For obvious reasons there might be few these days that do.

That said I only use flats live in reggae situations myself, we don't have the gear to really make flats sound their best, and the music we coverostly has more modern sounding roundwound tones on the recordings.

 

[zombie1965]

I find subs being turned up too loud far worse a problem for bass guitar. I always wondered why I couldn't really hear the bass at some of the bigger venues where I see shows. I saw an article recently about how some bands noticed a difference in lowend in the 90s as electronic music became more popular. Subs got bigger and more powerful and now bass guitar was being cranked through them. After reading the article I realized all the places where bass guitar sound best to me are smaller venues that either have no subs at all or much more modest subs. At the larger venues the engineers must just turn down the bass to keep things from getting muddy but then all you hear is the lows and the mids are lost. This isn't true for every band. Larger bands with good sound engineers probably have picked up on this problem and cut lows from the bass channel to handle this exact problem.

Sorry about the change in topics. I just find other things about live sound worse than what type of strings a player decides to use (by the way I tend to like roundwounds more)

I agree with the overpowered subs, no doubt.
I still feel there is an issue with flats and undefined flabby bass. As I mentioned a few bands round this area have switched and IMO have really lost their way sound wise on the bass end regardless if they have subs or not. perhaps i'm being to critical but if mine and others enjoyment of these acts has fallen short for the past few gigs and the only real difference is the flabby bass and the bass player has swapped for flats, surely that's worth him knowing. I asked him "hey whats with the flats?" he replied "everyone using them they are more meaty and sound better" I left it at that but disagree

I'm a bass player myself and have used flats before. in a Gypsy jazz band on an acoustic bass!

 

[zombie1965]

I think with the advances in modern PAs and even backlines there is noreason flats can't sound great live, but it takes a sound man that understands how to EQ them to make it work. For obvious reasons there might be few these days that do.

That said I only use flats live in reggae situations myself, we don't have the gear to really make flats sound their best, and the music we coverostly has more modern sounding roundwound tones on the recordings.

reggae would suit flats IMO its that DUB bass sound, it should be undefined and warm

 

[Lo-E]

Recorded well and EQ done well flats can sound superb

Mixed live and EQ done well can also produce fine results.

In the various clubs in NYC I've gotten everything from beautiful, clear tone with flats on a short scale to absolute mud with rounds on bright, active basses. I seriously doubt the root of the OP's problem is flats.
The real question to ask is: "With live sound technology better than it's ever been, why is most live sound so awful?!?" (Answer: because technology is no substitute for good ears, but a lot of "engineers" think it is!)

 

[bolophonic]

I really just don't like the sound of flats..... I find them undefined and thuddy.... sounds a bit to upright bass to me, works on jazz not so much on anything else. Your response would be of someone who loves flats. someone who love flats would describe my tone as Zingy and defined.

for about the last 12 months i have seen a trend towards bass players using flats alot more. people i frequent shows with to watch mostly agree it has been detrimental to the overall sound of the bands that have switched. but the players in those bands insist they sound better.

I'm hoping its a short fad

My response would be that of someone who knows that you can't generalize tone by string type and that in a live setting, EQ will have a bigger impact on tone than the outer winding of a string. Whatever.... you can continue to sabotage your own enjoyment of live music by closing your mind and worrying about trends. It won't matter to me after I push "reply."

 

[hintz]

I really just don't like the sound of flats..... I find them undefined and thuddy.... sounds a bit to upright bass to me, works on jazz not so much on anything else. Your response would be of someone who loves flats. someone who love flats would describe my tone as Zingy and defined.

for about the last 12 months i have seen a trend towards bass players using flats alot more. people i frequent shows with to watch mostly agree it has been detrimental to the overall sound of the bands that have switched. but the players in those bands insist they sound better.

I'm hoping its a short fad

I don't get the flatwound thing either, I accidentally bought a set years ago in college(broke a string and quickly bought a set during lunch at a store next to the school).... I hated the feel and the sound, but more so the feel, they just felt sticky like someone put brakes on my hands and a muffler on my tone, I couldn't replace them quick enough...

Also I will note that Steve Harris uses flats, but he also changes them before each gig, so I imagine recording is no different...

To each their own though as a surprising amount of people started using them again lately...

Edit: I'll also add that flats seem to be more of a trend here on Talkbass than it is in the real world, I think that Rounds are *still* more popular amongst gigging bassists

 

[sikamikanico]

The only time someone complemented (or even mentioned) my bass sound was when I used a Pbass with flats.... And we played that venue often, so the PA equipment and the sound guy were the same... Granted, the sound guy was an older rock guy, so maybe he liked working with a bassist using a Pbass and flats (that was in a time and place where pbasses and flats were not yet the trend)... Or maybe we just had a really good show.

That being said, switching to flats does require a somewhat different approach to tone, and other people may need to adjust - including the sound guy, the band members, and perhaps those in the audience

 

[G On Bass]

Why why why why why why are the some bass players in bands I have been watching for years now following the trend towards using Flats? I find myself walking away mid show when the bass sounds dull and thuddy or worse....like I have an ear full of water. Why are you using flats? In a jazz set-up I get it, anything else and they just sucks the life out of the performance.

Flats are hardly a trend as they have been around longer than rounds. What kind of music do the bands in question play?

 

[zombie1965]

Ok those of you who use flats..... have you ever tried a very heavy gauge round? IMO that gives a similar "tone" to flats but keeps the bite and upper end focused

 

[spiritbass]

Mixed live and EQ done well can also produce fine results.

In the various clubs in NYC I've gotten everything from beautiful, clear tone with flats on a short scale to absolute mud with rounds on bright, active basses. I seriously doubt the root of the OP's problem is flats.
The real question to ask is: "With live sound technology better than it's ever been, why is most live sound so awful?!?" (Answer: because technology is no substitute for good ears, but a lot of "engineers" think it is!)

I do believe that you have 'nailed it'. Personally, I haven't had flats on any of my basses for a few years and am not susceptible to trends...

 

[zombie1965]

Flats are hardly a trend as they have been around longer than rounds. What kind of music do the bands in question play?

In the examples I gave one is a heavy rock outfit. The other is a Surfy-psychedelic Alternative band.

There are a lot more bands as of late round this area using flats... That's just 2 examples

 

[onda'bass]

Yea, heavy round still don't sound like flats. I am a convert, and there is no mud in my sound. They fit the sound in my head after all these years.Ymmv

 

[organworthyplayer337]

To each their own. I like flats. You don't. We're in no right to tell you to use flats. You're in no right to tell us to use rounds.


To. Each. Their. Own.

 

[EdwardofHuncote]

I liked my dull-thuddy flats before they were trendy.

 

[onosson]

I started using flats early on when I first learned the instrument in the 80s, definitely through the influence of Steve Harris. I've gone back and forth with different strings, and mostly stay away from rounds these days as more of a feel thing than for tonal reasons. Currently I use tapewounds on all my instruments, as I find they are a happy medium of feel and tone, but some may disagree.

 

[P-oddz]

I don't get the point of the thread.
You don't like playing flats? Don't use them.
You like bright rounds? Keep playing them.

No trend... no secret cabal of flatwound worshippers... just personal preference, and we are all now well aware of your personal preference.

End of thread.

 

[Mushroo]

Flats are the original bass strings; it's not a "trend."

I have some basses with flats and some basses with rounds. I get compliments from sound engineers on both. It's the carpenter not the tools...

 

[BassFishingInAmerica]

Has nothing to do with flats or rounds. Has to do with knowing how to EQ amp settings.