Tried Some New Basses Today

[chunger]

Don't know why everyone's hot and bothered about Kingrazor's method of assessing instruments. It seems to me, given his level of diagnostic and setup capabilities, he's proceeding in a very logical manner for several reasons:

1. He's not in a hurry to buy, so all observations are more objective than otherwise. There is no immediate concern about needing an instrument TODAY.

2. The trip or trips around various stores is an investment in his individual knowledge when it actually comes time to buy.

3. It makes perfect sense to me that an instrument that already plays well off the rack would be a much safer purchase than one that does not as setups typically improve playability, but sometimes it takes a significant amount of knowledge, work, and tools to make a problematic instrument play like butter. Often you cannot even know if any specific production instrument can be made to play up to your own standards of setup until you take the knife to it.

He's sharing his observations. I happen to personally advocate fretwork and setup as key ingredients to the overall package and shop with a gaggle of levels, rulers, and other doodads in my pocket. I try to spot major problems (twisted necks, wild fretboard leveling errors, etc.), and also look for problems that are relatively easy to resolve (1 or 2 high frets, etc.). But, without the capacity to fix these issues, I think it's very smart to judge based on what's in front of you and how it feels off the rack under your fingers.

 

[lfmn16]

...the funny thing is, in reality, the difference between a $399.00 bass and a $1399.00 bass in the hands of 98% of those on this site (your's truly included) is indistinguishable by the crowd you are playing for at your local club or event. If you want to spend 1k or 2k or 3k on a bass because YOU like it, that is great. But your audience (at least about 99% of them) can't tell the difference. For most (not all) bass players, if you are spending more than 700-800 bucks on a new bass, you are experiencing diminished returns. I saw a comparison on the "Bass Whisperer" site between the Squier "Classic Vibe" models and the original Fender models they seek to evoke. Even that guy had a tough time definitively articulating a significant difference. Set up, strings etc...make a significant difference in how a bass plays; all else being equal. However, unlike swapping an Epiphone T-Bird for a Gibson T-Bird (and lightening your wallet about $1k more) won't make you a thousand dollars better, a good set up can make a moderately priced bass sound great and a bad setup/strings can make an expensive bass sound/play like crap.

I agree with your comments about the audience. I once read an article about Eric Johnson and he was talking about liking batteries that were half-way used getting the best tone for one of his distortion pedals - talk about anal retentive!! However, it's everyone's own business how they achieve the perfect tone. I'm sure many people would disagree with my methods.

I also agree with your comment about diminishing returns, although I'm not sure I'd set the bar at $700-800.

 

[nyde7]

Unless the band is ragged, no one cares what the "tone" is, they care about the music. Only us musicians notice. And for a large gig where your rig is miked and goes to the house, it is the sound guy that determines the "tone" that we hear.
As I said earlier, the neck is what tells me immediately if I like a bass, I can work around body shapes, setups, etc. But for a personal instrument it all comes down to feel and what you want to hear. Who cares what others think of your bass or rig, it yours. Only the band your playing with and the crowd will determine if you are a bass player...

 

[FloridaThump]

I agree with your comments about the audience. I once read an article about Eric Johnson and he was talking about liking batteries that were half-way used getting the best tone for one of his distortion pedals - talk about anal retentive!! However, it's everyone's own business how they achieve the perfect tone. I'm sure many people would disagree with my methods.

I also agree with your comment about diminishing returns, although I'm not sure I'd set the bar at $700-800.

You can get a USA/CIJ/MIMFSR Fender, an Ibanez with Bartolinis, an ESP LTD or Schecter with Grovers and EMGs, an MTD or an Epiphone Jack Casady or Allen Woody, etc... for $700-800.00. All nice basses that are more than enough for most bassists. Certainly the high end basses have some nice features but they certainly aren't $2000.00 better than the ones I listed. Again, personal choice is the ultimate factor. But if you remove the "snob factor", a $329.00 Squier Classic Vibe P or J bass is a better quality instrument than just about anything that was made in the 50s through the 70s. Not as sexy or with the same "cool" factor, but a better constructed instrument. Of course I would rather have a 60s P bass but I still realize that I can buy a much better instrument for much less cash. To each his own.

 

[KingRazor]

Don't know why everyone's hot and bothered about Kingrazor's method of assessing instruments. It seems to me, given his level of diagnostic and setup capabilities, he's proceeding in a very logical manner for several reasons:

1. He's not in a hurry to buy, so all observations are more objective than otherwise. There is no immediate concern about needing an instrument TODAY.

2. The trip or trips around various stores is an investment in his individual knowledge when it actually comes time to buy.

3. It makes perfect sense to me that an instrument that already plays well off the rack would be a much safer purchase than one that does not as setups typically improve playability, but sometimes it takes a significant amount of knowledge, work, and tools to make a problematic instrument play like butter. Often you cannot even know if any specific production instrument can be made to play up to your own standards of setup until you take the knife to it.

He's sharing his observations. I happen to personally advocate fretwork and setup as key ingredients to the overall package and shop with a gaggle of levels, rulers, and other doodads in my pocket. I try to spot major problems (twisted necks, wild fretboard leveling errors, etc.), and also look for problems that are relatively easy to resolve (1 or 2 high frets, etc.). But, without the capacity to fix these issues, I think it's very smart to judge based on what's in front of you and how it feels off the rack under your fingers.

This man, he understands.

One thing I didn't mention in all of this is that sometimes there's nothing actually wrong with the bass (except maybe minor setup issues), but I simply won't like the neck profile. Whether it be the shape, the thickness, or the width at the nut. Maybe even just the finish (cannot stand the finish on Squier CV necks).

 

[nyde7]

This man, he understands.

One thing I didn't mention in all of this is that sometimes there's nothing actually wrong with the bass (except maybe minor setup issues), but I simply won't like the neck profile. Whether it be the shape, the thickness, or the width at the nut. Maybe even just the finish (cannot stand the finish on Squier CV necks).

Exactly! If the neck does not feel right, forget it! I've played alot of basses but the neck has got to be just right. I have a friend that has 10s of thousands of dollars worth of guitars, his fav is a squire strat. It is all in the neck! I can change bodies, bridges, pickups, etc.

 

[SwagAttack]

Don't know why everyone's hot and bothered about Kingrazor's method of assessing instruments. It seems to me, given his level of diagnostic and setup capabilities, he's proceeding in a very logical manner for several reasons:

1. He's not in a hurry to buy, so all observations are more objective than otherwise. There is no immediate concern about needing an instrument TODAY.

2. The trip or trips around various stores is an investment in his individual knowledge when it actually comes time to buy.

3. It makes perfect sense to me that an instrument that already plays well off the rack would be a much safer purchase than one that does not as setups typically improve playability, but sometimes it takes a significant amount of knowledge, work, and tools to make a problematic instrument play like butter. Often you cannot even know if any specific production instrument can be made to play up to your own standards of setup until you take the knife to it.

He's sharing his observations. I happen to personally advocate fretwork and setup as key ingredients to the overall package and shop with a gaggle of levels, rulers, and other doodads in my pocket. I try to spot major problems (twisted necks, wild fretboard leveling errors, etc.), and also look for problems that are relatively easy to resolve (1 or 2 high frets, etc.). But, without the capacity to fix these issues, I think it's very smart to judge based on what's in front of you and how it feels off the rack under your fingers.

I agree with this, but that's not what I find weird. I find the statement that the SX is more playable that the EBMM hard to believe, especially if there is nothing wrong with the EBMM. Then giving ambiguous terms to describe it when what he is describing is something that a setup could fix, then immediately saying it wasn't a setup that was needed, it was the basses fault.

Edit: Not saying he is wrong, the playability could have been horrendous, but from my observations of playing basses at stores, a bass that expensive most likely needs strings/setup.

 

[KingRazor]

I agree with this, but that's not what I find weird. I find the statement that the SX is more playable that the EBMM hard to believe, especially if there is nothing wrong with the EBMM. Then giving ambiguous terms to describe it when what he is describing is something that a setup could fix, then immediately saying it wasn't a setup that was needed, it was the basses fault.

Edit: Not saying he is wrong, the playability could have been horrendous, but from my observations of playing basses at stores, a bass that expensive most likely needs strings/setup.

When I played my SX out of the box when I first got it, it outplayed every EBMM I had ever played (which were all "off the wall" basses from either GC or one of the local shops)

It wasn't until I played that fretless fiver Stingray that I played an EBMM I liked more than my SX (and boy did I like it).

After playing that EBMM I finally understand why people like them. Up until them I thought they were just crazy.

Doubt all you want, I've played dozens of $1000+ basses that played terribly. I'm sure that some were just bad setups, some just had necks that were not to my preference, and a few were just duds.

My SX P bass is not the best bass I have ever played. The neck is both thicker and wider than I like. The frets feel huge and can get in the way of sliding. It's not light weight and feels just a little neck heavy. But you know what? In spite of all of that, it is still more comfortable to play than HALF of the basses I play at music shops.

 

[lfmn16]

To each his own.

About this we can agree. If one person gets the perfect tone from $500 bass and someone else needs a $1500 bass to get their perfect tone, it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[aborgman]

We are talking about two identical Stingrays here, though.

A fretted 4 string and a fretless 5 string are "two identical Stingrays"?

 

[SwagAttack]

When I played my SX out of the box when I first got it, it outplayed every EBMM I had ever played (which were all "off the wall" basses from either GC or one of the local shops)

It wasn't until I played that fretless fiver Stingray that I played an EBMM I liked more than my SX (and boy did I like it).

After playing that EBMM I finally understand why people like them. Up until them I thought they were just crazy.

Doubt all you want, I've played dozens of $1000+ basses that played terribly. I'm sure that some were just bad setups, some just had necks that were not to my preference, and a few were just duds.

My SX P bass is not the best bass I have ever played. The neck is both thicker and wider than I like. The frets feel huge and can get in the way of sliding. It's not light weight and feels just a little neck heavy. But you know what? In spite of all of that, it is still more comfortable to play than HALF of the basses I play at music shops.

Glad I don't live in Oregon. I have never had that many problems with expensive basses. If that SX that you have has that many problems and still plays better than instruments more than $1000, they must not take care of their instruments at stores up there.

 

[KingRazor]

Glad I don't live in Oregon. I have never had that many problems with expensive basses. If that SX that you have has that many problems and still plays better than instruments more than $1000, they must not take care of their instruments at stores up there.

lol I guess not. Remember though that most of those basses I've tried were at Guitar Center...

You know what basses consistently out-perform my SX? Ibanez. Ibanez sound gears, even the ones that have been on the wall at GC for months without ever getting setup, totally out-play my SX. I've noticed the same with some high-end Fenders (and even a few Squiers).

 

[Justbleazy]

I went to the GC last Friday and played a 1969 Fender Jazz Bass that costs $1999 and I did not care for it all and I own a Fender P Deluxe Special. The one bass that blew me away was the Spector Classic 4.

The FEEL of that bass (IMO) is like no other I've ever played. The neck was perfect, the weight was perfect and every style I played on the bass sounded lovely. Unfortunately, I don't have $900 atm so I had leave that baby in the store but I would take the Spector Classic 4 over all of the other basses in GC.

 

[SwagAttack]

lol I guess not. Remember though that most of those basses I've tried were at Guitar Center...

You know what basses consistently out-perform my SX? Ibanez. Ibanez sound gears, even the ones that have been on the wall at GC for months without ever getting setup, totally out-play my SX. I've noticed the same with some high-end Fenders (and even a few Squiers).

That is why my newest addition to my bass family is my first Ibanez. Supposed to come today.

 

[mdogs]

"SX outplays a Musicman," ime, that statement completely invalidates everything else that was said. SOOOOOOOO many people try to rationalize their purchase of crappy instruments in this way. If you can't afford decent instruments, that is fine, but don't bash quality products because of that. Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference then, while you have the right to state your opinion, no one should give it the time of day...

 

[KingRazor]

"SX outplays a Musicman," ime, that statement completely invalidates everything else that was said. SOOOOOOOO many people try to rationalize their purchase of crappy instruments in this way. If you can't afford decent instruments, that is fine, but don't bash quality products because of that. Sorry, but if you can't tell the difference then, while you have the right to state your opinion, no one should give it the time of day...

I wondered when I'd attract the EBMM fanboys.

I don't need to rationalize my purchase of an SX. That bass sounds fantastic. All the P tone I could ever want, without the hefty price tag of a MIA Fender.

I can tell a difference between my SX and the EBMMs I've tried. Pretty easily. The neck on my SX is more comfortable to play on, simple as that.

I never once said "All SX basses are better than all EBMM basses." And I never would.

But, MY SX is better than ANY EBMM bass that I have played (except that fretless fiver I mentioned in the OP).

And I have absolutely found plenty of basses that are more expensive than my SX and play better. Plenty.

But, I don't have to defend myself against fanboys.

If you love EBMM, that's great. I couldn't care less. I have played a number of EBMM basses that I wouldn't pay $100 for. To each their own, yada yada.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

"SX outplays a Musicman," ime, that statement completely invalidates everything else that was said.

+1

My SX P bass is not the best bass I have ever played. The neck is both thicker and wider than I like. The frets feel huge and can get in the way of sliding. It's not light weight and feels just a little neck heavy...

But this all describes playability. If I had those complaints about a bass, it wouldn't be my bass for very long.

 

[BigBigGuy44]

But, I don't have to defend myself against fanboys.

Fender was last week. Now you are on EBMM. Stay tuned for next week.

 

[KingRazor]

+1



But this all describes playability. If I had those complaints about a bass, it wouldn't be my bass for very long.

Me saying my SX plays better than that musicman was like me saying that pepperoni pizza from papa murphys tastes better than a combo pizza from round table. I wouldn't be right or wrong, that'd just be my opinion. Yet somehow you think that that opinion means I don't know anything. Ha ha, that's funny.

All of those complaints about my SX are the basically the same ones that I've had about every musicman I've ever played (again, not counting that fretless 5-string).

 

[KingRazor]

Fender was last week. Now you are on EBMM. Stay tuned for next week.

I'm not here to bash on EBMM. Or Fender. Especially because I, ya know, actually like Fender basses.