Double Bass Trill explanation

[Andy Mopley]

Hi all - on the attached, bar 47, is he trill to be played between say Ab and Bb notes but ending in the G note?

I have looked at some examples but couldn't find one to match this, if there is such a link somewhere, happy to be referred to it

Thank you

 

[Hector Wolff]

The trill for the first instance should be between the Ab and Bb, starting on the upper neighbor (the Bb). For the second instance it should be between the G and Ab (also starting on the upper neighbor).

Simandl 1 has an explanatin of this I think.

 

[MikeCanada]

I would personally read it as the trill happens on the Ab (Bb to Ab) and then the G is a separate note played afterwards. Your initial assumption is what I would do, and I do not see it as being any different than any other situation where there is a trill in the middle of a phrase; the notes following it are regular notes.

 

[neilG]

The trill is from the lower note, ie., Ab to Bb.

 

[Hector Wolff]

I believe where the trill starts varries depending on the period of the piece. We are doing a Mozart piano concerto, where our conductor opted for starting the trill on the upper neighbor - meaning that one finger is on the written note (in this case Ab) but you start the trill on the upper neighbor (Bb) and end the trill on the written note (Ab). I believe - but I have not looked it up lately, that in baroque music they typically started from the written note.

 

[neilG]

Hector, you have it backward: certain Baroque trills start from the upper note. In Mahler, you would expect to start that trill from the written note.

 

[Hector Wolff]

Thanks Neil, I knew there was a different approach, but as I said I had not looked it up lately. So my conductor is applying a baroque trill to a classical piece? It just so happens that the particular passages in the Piano Concerto 14, seem to work well with the start on the the upper, if I had to play them with the start on the written, I think the rhythm and tempo might be harder to maintain, perhaps that's why he choose it.

 

[Hector Wolff]

After a quick survey of several online sources, it seems that the upper neighbor start to the trill is the common practice in baroque and in most of the classical period. So for Mozart the upper start we have been doing seems not only correct but also explains why the passages seem to have been written with that trill in mind. Sorry for having thought the demarcation line was the baroque and misleading the OP.

 

[David Potts]

Yes, but ????? Mahler is a much later period. Listen to recordings and you might find that within context the trills here don't start on the upper note. This is my memory of when I have played the passage in question. I agree that that trills often start on the upper note, played like a crushed note just before the beat, in earlier periods but not in Romantic period unless specifically asked for in print.

For what it is worth I believe that trills written so low on the bass are a bit of a disaster because each note never has time to sound clearly. There is a lot of mechanical sound but tone is a mess because it "takes 10 vibrations to fully develop" (here I quote Knut Guettler).

Cheers, DP

 

[neilG]

Thanks Neil, I knew there was a different approach, but as I said I had not looked it up lately. So my conductor is applying a baroque trill to a classical piece?

Nothing is written in stone. Don't tell the Hysterically Informed crowd.