It's impossible to learn a lot of music by notes in a short time. In that way don't try to learn exactly the same scores as it is, change them in your way, better way, your better way. That's the only way !
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Trouble learning to read music
- Thread starter Willie5String
- Start date
I'm not a terrible sight reader with it comes to keyboard. I'm not half bad at sight singing either. But I've never even tried to sight read a bass line, in fact I doubt in all of my bass playing experience I've never even seen a bass line written out for any of the music I've gigged. I've seen tabs, but just not necessary for me.
It sounds to me from your post that you're doing fine. 4 months wouldn't have gotten me very far at all in my experience. Just keep at it, that's all I can say. What you are learning will help with every aspect of your playing, even if you don't get real great at it.
It sounds to me from your post that you're doing fine. 4 months wouldn't have gotten me very far at all in my experience. Just keep at it, that's all I can say. What you are learning will help with every aspect of your playing, even if you don't get real great at it.
ok, so let me see if i got this right: reading is a skill that you work on forever because you want to get better at it, always...but you do it all the time because you don't want to lose the skill(s) you thought you had last month.
Kinda like 2 steps forward, one step backView attachment 3970176
ok, so let me see if i got this right: reading is a skill that you work on forever because you want to get better at it, always...but you do it all the time because you don't want to lose the skill(s) you thought you had last month.
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yep.Kinda like 2 steps forward, one step back
i think the OP might be a little impatient with himself...the rest of us just had to bite the bullet. reminds me of marriage! 
By the time you get really good at sight reading, you realize you really aren't that good after all.View attachment 3970176
ok, so let me see if i got this right: reading is a skill that you work on forever because you want to get better at it, always...but you do it all the time because you don't want to lose the skill(s) you thought you had last month.
At the risk of being the asshat here. After 36 years of teaching music and sight charts in big bands, and pit orchestras I can tell you that people who have the most problems with sight reading don't know their instrument as well as they should.
Do you know ALL the notes over ALL the neck? Are you familiar with all your major and minor scales? (modes help too) Can you play all the scales in all the forms? (like first finger on tonic, second finger on tonic, fourth finger on tonic). 4 String scales, 3 string, 2 string.
Yea, that's a bunch of stuff. But as one reader posted at 120 bpm 1/8 notes are .025 seconds. If you have to take any time to figure out where the next note is... you aren't going to make it.
Can you clap the rhythms? Comment about 'finding' the notes is the same for figuring out the rhythm. You gotta know that as you see it. (if you were to read this post out loud and had to 'sound out' every 3rd word... it'd be a mess. Same thing with sight reading.
Many auditions for school and professional gigs have sight reading as a measured skill. And clearly, anyone who can play music pretty much correctly the first time they see it, has got some stuff together on their axe.
Good luck, it's a valuable and marketable skill and well worth the time spent.
Do you know ALL the notes over ALL the neck? Are you familiar with all your major and minor scales? (modes help too) Can you play all the scales in all the forms? (like first finger on tonic, second finger on tonic, fourth finger on tonic). 4 String scales, 3 string, 2 string.
Yea, that's a bunch of stuff. But as one reader posted at 120 bpm 1/8 notes are .025 seconds. If you have to take any time to figure out where the next note is... you aren't going to make it.
Can you clap the rhythms? Comment about 'finding' the notes is the same for figuring out the rhythm. You gotta know that as you see it. (if you were to read this post out loud and had to 'sound out' every 3rd word... it'd be a mess. Same thing with sight reading.
Many auditions for school and professional gigs have sight reading as a measured skill. And clearly, anyone who can play music pretty much correctly the first time they see it, has got some stuff together on their axe.
Good luck, it's a valuable and marketable skill and well worth the time spent.
By the time you get really good at sight reading, you realize you really aren't that good after all.
Get rid of the metronome. Just count the beats (1&2&3&4 etc), even if it is out of time. The added pressure of the click isn't helping anything at all.
That's a different skill. Sight-reading has nothing to do with reading to learn the music. It is playing what is written, in real-time, straight off the page. In many cases the player is in no position to make 'note-choice' or 'my way' decisions, unless they want an 'early bath'.
Well done with sticking to it, sight reading is a great skill to develop.
Might I suggest you write yourself some eighth note excercises, don't aim to make them crazy difficult or over the extreme ranges of the instrument. I would limit the range to a ledger line either side of the stave
E1 - C3, and I'd increase the range as I got more comfortable with it.
By writing your own excercises, you are encouraging your fluency with notation as you will be using it to write and then using it read. Quite like languages the more you can incorporate it, the more fluent you can become.
I would also suggest not trying to sight read at with a metronome blasting away, either don't use it or set it to a slow tempo. I would be inclined to choose to not use a metronome and use your internal clock , so your focus is on the notes that are written on the page.
I do have a more community suggestion, that's if anyone else wishes to. We could contribute an eighth note based line for you to sight read. I don't know how many people would be willing to contribute, but I thought I'd put it out there.
Might I suggest you write yourself some eighth note excercises, don't aim to make them crazy difficult or over the extreme ranges of the instrument. I would limit the range to a ledger line either side of the stave
E1 - C3, and I'd increase the range as I got more comfortable with it.
By writing your own excercises, you are encouraging your fluency with notation as you will be using it to write and then using it read. Quite like languages the more you can incorporate it, the more fluent you can become.
I would also suggest not trying to sight read at with a metronome blasting away, either don't use it or set it to a slow tempo. I would be inclined to choose to not use a metronome and use your internal clock , so your focus is on the notes that are written on the page.
I do have a more community suggestion, that's if anyone else wishes to. We could contribute an eighth note based line for you to sight read. I don't know how many people would be willing to contribute, but I thought I'd put it out there.
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Do this. After you can say the counts correctly add the met back in and do it in time. Then add the bass. It may not be sight reading just yet to do it this way, but it is the skill that you are currently struggling with in your reading (counting the rhythm).
Note that I am not just saying to do this. I lived doing things this way back when I started playing bass. I have seen the results in my reading. I have seen it work for others. 20 years later, I still count like this only I am usually good enough now to just do it while reading instead of having to do the full process. It took years to get there. I still occasionally need me to stop (or go back if it was a full read) and work out the rhythm (typically when I am reading Jamerson).
I should also note that this is how my percussion instructor back in school would teach. If we had time our first read of a piece would be a count (in your head) and clap the rhythm. He would be at the front of the room with a block clicking time by hand and counting 1e&a2e&a3e&a4e&a. Frequently at speeds that would make the whole thing ridiculous to anyone passing by. It worked though. He typically had successful competition groups and still has a Pro Mark signature line of mallets. While those things do not mean he knew what he was doing, I can confidently tell you he knew what he was doing (I lived the results in my education and our competition success).
OK. But that doesn't really change anything. Imagine the different in clock time between eight notes played in swing and eight notes played straight. Not much difference. And the point being, that IF you don't know the neck well enough to know where you are going before you get there, you're going to mess up the rhythm or the style. (like the old saying, 'there is no such thing as the right note at the wrong time')
Thanks for the tips! I have been mostly working out of 300 sight reading exercises for bass and have hit the wall at exercise 65, which is strings of 4-1/8 notes. I play 5 string, so I would work out of the G on the E string and then play the same exercise on the same G on the B string.
I should mention that the problem seems more centered around finding the target note in the allotted time more than the inability to play a familiar note cluster in time.
I added in another book and realized that while I generally know all the notes on a given string (I learned them by playing the 12 key exercises on IReal on 1 string at a time for months), I don’t 100% have the note locations relative to each other on adjacent strings. That may be part of the issue here. I found a book-Note reading studies for bass that works through different keys, so maybe that will help me.
I should mention that the problem seems more centered around finding the target note in the allotted time more than the inability to play a familiar note cluster in time.
I added in another book and realized that while I generally know all the notes on a given string (I learned them by playing the 12 key exercises on IReal on 1 string at a time for months), I don’t 100% have the note locations relative to each other on adjacent strings. That may be part of the issue here. I found a book-Note reading studies for bass that works through different keys, so maybe that will help me.
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What you say above suggests that your issue is primarily one of fingerboard knowledge.
You might want to practice scale and arpeggio exercises.
Forget about the "shapes" and "boxes" (for now at least).
Play your scales and arpeggios all over the neck from the lowest to the highest possible note. Play them on 1 string, 2 strings, 3 strings, etc., with open strings, without open strings, across the strings, up and down.
Play broken scales (in 3rds, 4ths, ..., 7ths, octaves).
Whenever you play a note, you should be able to know:
- how it is called
- how else it can be called (enharmonics)
- what scale degree it is for the scale or chord you are playing
- how it is notated on staff
- how it sounds (can you sing it?)
- where to play it on your bass
- where else to play it on your bass
- what is the interval with respect to the note you played just before.
- what fingering(s) is appropriate to play it, taking account of where you have been before, and you are going to.
Do this in all 12 keys (+enharmonic keys). All modes, and all chord qualities.
Do all this ... but don't try to do it all at once. Go by small steps.
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For fretboard knowledge I agree with Papageno, however do suggest you let the "box" get you stated. Seeing the patterns on the other strings could help you see them all over the neck. This cut and paste post may help......
...... if you do teach yourself I'd start you off with knowing where the notes are on your fretboard. Why? So later on when your ear tells you, or you see a chord your fingers know what to do with that information. So lets get started. The following are some things you can work on before you get with a teacher -- that can tell you how to do it correctly.
For this paper we will be referring to notes as A, B, C & 1, 2, 3. For example:
C Major Scale…….....…C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (octave)
Scale degree number. 1. 2, 3,.4,.5, 6, 7, 8 (octave)
The Major Scale Box Pattern will also be used in our examples.
The Major Scale Box
G|~~|---A----|-------|---B---|---C---|1st string
D|~~|---E----|---F---|--------|--G----|
A|~~|---B----|---C---|-------|---D----|
E|~~|---------|---G---|-------|---A----| 4th string
C and D played on the A string.
E, F and G played on the D string.
A, B and C played on the G string.
Why did I place the C root note on the A string? If we place the tonic root note of the scale or chord progression on the A string the 4th and 5th scale degrees will be above and below the tonic root note. Why is that important? The I-IV-V chord progression finds its way into hundreds of simple songs. Having the I, IV and V root notes all together in one spot will prove to be an advantage.
Octaves - Playing the root of a chord and just pounding out root notes is safe - and boring. Think about octaves, which is the root in another octave, R-8, or R-8-R-8 or R-R-8-8, safe and simple. Hold on --- the 5 is always right below the 8 so the R-5-8-5 becomes another safe bass line you could get into muscle memory very easily. More on that later.
Any root note’s octave can be found up two strings and over two frets. To simplify this paper “over” will mean move toward the bridge and “back” will mean move toward the nut. OK this will find the 8 or octave note, if you want to return to the 1 note go down two strings and back two frets.
Find a C note. For its octave 8 go up two strings and over two frets. For the tonic 1 note go down two strings and back two frets.
Finding the other notes:
Major scale box showing scale degree numbers and the root note on the 4th string.
G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
This box, using scale degree numbers instead of note names will allow you to utilize the scale or chord spelling in your bass lines. See a Cmaj7 chord coming up in the song. The spelling for the Cmaj7 is R-3-5-7. Find those scale degrees within the box and you have a safe bass line. Start with just roots, need more add a 5. The 8 is always a safe addition. From there the correct 3 and 7 fill out a bass line very well.
Moving the box gives you another key. C at the 3rd fret. D at the 5th, etc.
This and standard notation do not really fit - glove in hand... Works great for us good ole boy band members that follow the chords and play chord tones. I listed it to show you how patterns are all over your neck.
...... if you do teach yourself I'd start you off with knowing where the notes are on your fretboard. Why? So later on when your ear tells you, or you see a chord your fingers know what to do with that information. So lets get started. The following are some things you can work on before you get with a teacher -- that can tell you how to do it correctly.
For this paper we will be referring to notes as A, B, C & 1, 2, 3. For example:
C Major Scale…….....…C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C (octave)
Scale degree number. 1. 2, 3,.4,.5, 6, 7, 8 (octave)
The Major Scale Box Pattern will also be used in our examples.
The Major Scale Box
G|~~|---A----|-------|---B---|---C---|1st string
D|~~|---E----|---F---|--------|--G----|
A|~~|---B----|---C---|-------|---D----|
E|~~|---------|---G---|-------|---A----| 4th string
C and D played on the A string.
E, F and G played on the D string.
A, B and C played on the G string.
Why did I place the C root note on the A string? If we place the tonic root note of the scale or chord progression on the A string the 4th and 5th scale degrees will be above and below the tonic root note. Why is that important? The I-IV-V chord progression finds its way into hundreds of simple songs. Having the I, IV and V root notes all together in one spot will prove to be an advantage.
Octaves - Playing the root of a chord and just pounding out root notes is safe - and boring. Think about octaves, which is the root in another octave, R-8, or R-8-R-8 or R-R-8-8, safe and simple. Hold on --- the 5 is always right below the 8 so the R-5-8-5 becomes another safe bass line you could get into muscle memory very easily. More on that later.
Any root note’s octave can be found up two strings and over two frets. To simplify this paper “over” will mean move toward the bridge and “back” will mean move toward the nut. OK this will find the 8 or octave note, if you want to return to the 1 note go down two strings and back two frets.
Find a C note. For its octave 8 go up two strings and over two frets. For the tonic 1 note go down two strings and back two frets.
Finding the other notes:
- From any note where is its 2? Over two frets same string.
- From any note where is its 3? Up a string and back one fret.
- From any note where is its 4? Up a string same fret.
- From any note where is its 5? Up a string and over two frets, or right below on the next string down, same fret.
- From any note where is its 6? Up two strings and back one fret. Right over the 3.
- From any note where is its 7? Up two strings and over one fret. If you want C’s 7th find a C and the 7th is back one fret. This comes in handy when moving back down a scale.
- From any note where is its 8? Up two strings and over two frets.
Major scale box showing scale degree numbers and the root note on the 4th string.
G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string
This box, using scale degree numbers instead of note names will allow you to utilize the scale or chord spelling in your bass lines. See a Cmaj7 chord coming up in the song. The spelling for the Cmaj7 is R-3-5-7. Find those scale degrees within the box and you have a safe bass line. Start with just roots, need more add a 5. The 8 is always a safe addition. From there the correct 3 and 7 fill out a bass line very well.
Moving the box gives you another key. C at the 3rd fret. D at the 5th, etc.
This and standard notation do not really fit - glove in hand... Works great for us good ole boy band members that follow the chords and play chord tones. I listed it to show you how patterns are all over your neck.
